This Says it Best!

An old video, done the rounds years ago.

 

I feel the same way about my 328, that guy would do the car and himself some good to lose some weight, hes too fat to be in any Ferrari .

Big G

 

There is something about the GT 4 he’s right .
I have had a Testarossa and Moderna 369 F1 , previously to finding the holy grail driving experience in a GT 4 .


Nice bloke btw , they look after mine .
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It well represents the value of personal truth over others opinion.

Good reminder for me why I cherish a 308 In the presence of other models at times.

 

So plenty of Ferrari owners will never have seen it, and it never hurts to revisit it

Not sure who "Pininfarini" are - I only know of Pininfarina, and the "fabulous 3 litre engine" was in reality, a fabulous 2.9 litre engine (2.926 litres to be precise), but, you can tell that the guy genuinely loves the car, in a way that non-Ferrari people will never understand (people I know don't get how a Ferrari can make my heart skip a beat when I see one - Even when it's my own Ferrari, and I only saw it 2 minutes ago! )

He's spot on correct about the 308 GT4 though (in the UK at least) - When they first came out, they were unloved, in part because they were a 2+2, in part because it was a Bertone design - Not Pininfarina, and in part because they were just too angular for the traditional Ferrari customers. Even though it was the 70's, and angular wedge shaped cars were the fashion, Ferrari buyers still seemed to want curves on their Ferrari.

That was resolved when the 308 GTB came out, but as mentioned in the video, the 308 GT4 actually drove better than the GTB, due to it's extended wheelbase.

For decades in the UK, the 308 GT4 was the cheapest way into Ferrari ownership (when a 308 GTB/GTS would cost you £20,000 once upon a time, a 308 GT4 could be had at the same time for £5,000), and a lot of the cars were seriously neglected, run on a shoe string budgets, and regular servicing was ignored (if you can find it, take a look at the Wheeler Dealers Ferrari 308 GT4 episode - The two cars in that episode, pretty much represent how most 308 GT4's got treated in the UK, back in the day).

They went through a long period of looking like seriously badly dated 1970's designs, and then after several decades, one morning the UK woke up, looked at the 308 GT4 and said: "Damn! .......That's a seriously cool looking car!" .

Nobody can explain exactly when, why or how it became cool - it just did.

Today, what was once of the least sought after, most unloved, and cheapest Ferrari's in the UK, is now very sought after, and people are discovering just how good a car it is

 

Echoing what 4rePhil said ^^ .
In the 90s my first Ferrari was a Testarossa, Bought it because at the time Power and performance was king .It’s was heavy, oversteered and the brakes were rubbish and it’s chassis balance was waaaay out with that lump at the back .
Everyone said it must be great to drive .The reality was a million miles away from the imagery , partly the way Don Johnson used to toss his around the streets of Miami.

Next up a nearly new 360 F1 Moderna ,Schumacher was winning everything at F1 with paddles , the car had a alloy sandwich stiff chassis , sheds loads of electrotwackery derived from F1 to take the stress out of driving .
Unfortunately that was the problem , you did not see it at first but later realised you were just a passenger in a computer stuffed ECU controlled machine.Lost count of how many times the ASR light used to come on ….in normal dry road driving not acting like a Hooligan.

I gave up got out of F ownership .

Then this popped up at auction , recently retired so plenty of hobby time to fiddle around with it .Why not?

What a revelation to drive .The involvement etc .I love hard breaking you can feel the second a front wheels about to lock and just ease off .The manual box , the nine PAS light steering feel ( new rack fitted btw ) etc etc .But by far its best feature is the carbs .
As said ^^^ once set up there’s no better F car for involvement.
You can balance it on the throttle coming fast into roundabouts control the drift / 4 wheel slide .Well you can on my skinny 195/70/14 shod , 170 Hp 208 GT4 .
Impossible with a Testarossa or 360M ….which is what JP was trying to get across in the vid .

As others have said the Bertone wedge thing has come to me .Marcelo Gandini is in his late 80s .When he passes his legacies will rise in value pretty much like any other great artist in history.

 

It wasn't just the UK, it was everywhere. In fact, they were so unloved in the US it prompted the brand change from Dino to Ferrari. It took a long time for the world to wake up and realize what great cars these are. I'm very proud of mine, and very proud it's a badged as a Dino.

Niki Lauda indeed tuned the chassis on the GT4. Also, the car was literally built around Enzo himself (a mock-up of the car was made and everything was adjusted to Enzo's specifications). How's that for pedigree—both Enzo and Niki Lauda were personally involved with the creation of the GT4.

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I think it is a bit of a stretch...
Niki Lauda came to Ferrari at the end of 1973, after his F1 contract with BRM expired. The 308 GT4 was already pretty well developped at the time. He might have fine-tuned it later.
Whereas as for the 308 GTB, he actively participated in the development of the car and the chassis, as he explained himself in a few articles (notably his input in suspension settings, and the fact that he worked to have the car understeering when entering high speed curves, whereas the first prototypes were oversteering, etc...)

Rgds

 

That’s very similar to the GT4’s history here in the U.S. as well.

 

I think Niki had a lot of involvement in it , it was the time before he started winning and was forging a relationship not only with his race techs but the GT 4 guys .Sort of stamping out his modus operandi in the whole of Marenello.
They hadn’t had any one like him before …..I can’t say “or after” - because Schumacher was the same .Wouldn’t go home kept them all burning the midnight oil until that days issue / problem was fixed .

Have you noticed the mirrors on the GT 4 ,Vitolini California are the exact same as his 312 race car ?
It was Niki who insisted they use his “ Week end “ car mirrors for the week day car the GT 4 .
The GT 4 was his week day car .
No other road car can claim, inc other Ferrari or McLaren, Renault, Lotus etc etc has the identical mirrors to the then in the day F1 .
I mean what leverage has Lewis Hamilton got on the MB road cars ? I don’t see his mirrors on his Sunday car on any other Merc !

So why didn’t the 308 GTB Pininfarina in 76 have the 312 b mirrors if Lauda was so allegedly involved ?
Yet he bent Enzo ear with the GT 4 in 75 /76 .The early , very early GT 4 s had round chrome mirrors but Lauda changed that .

That’s how involved he was with the GT 4 …..as ever the complete professional.

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Niki never was involved with the 308GT4: it is all a stretch. Stop revisionism, and please stick to the facts. Please pay at least a little attention to the pictures: the Formula One car is not the 312B, but the 312T, which raced for the 1975 season.
At that time, the 308GT4 has been on the market for two years, and the 308 GTB development was already done: the 308 GTB was launched in september 1975: as far as the 308 GT4 goes, the dates and picture simply do not match.
On the contrary, these pics are a very good example of Ferrari trying to boost the failing career of the GT4 on some markets (as already said many times before, on "some other markets", such as France, the 308 GT4 sales were going very well)
I have never read any article written by Niki himself speaking about his involvement in the 308 GT4 development, but I have read some explaining in detail what he did for the 308 GTB development...

Rgds

 

And as far as the "Vitaloni" mirrors go, this would make me think that you are not very familiar with the race cars of this period; so many of them got these as the coincidence means exactly nothing...these were the usual mirrors available in Italy for sportscars at the time, and yes: the 308 GTB got these also. I do like the GT4 a lot, but let's not try to make history what it is not.

Rgds

 

I guess you didn't read the attached period ad? Here's a copy and paste:

"Niki Lauda spent several months testing different versions of the Ferrari 308 GT4. He made suggestions on how to improve the suspension, what to change in the gearbox, where the visibility could be greater, how the car could be more comfortable, and where the steering was less than perfect. The engineers then made the changes and Niki Lauda made more tests and suggestions."​

There's a reason people keep period documentation, I guess you don't have to believe it, but it sounds like you might be the one diving into revisionism.

 

Clip and mail the coupon……I’ll bet not many of us here remember those days!

 

They have even chassis numbers too , because the factory supported racing them .Lauda was involved in Chassis development.
Just as Senna was with the Honda NSX .

https://www.hotcars.com/things-you-didnt-know-about-ferrari-dino-308-gt4/

 

You are right: I have no trust in the Ferrari factory ads from this period as a reliable source of information. At the time, the factory was known for having a rather lax attitude towards information, including, for example, the ridiculous weights figures quoted for the "Vetroresina" (that still do appear today, whereas you just have to put the car on scales to be able to see the liberty that the factory took...), the SAE figures for the engine power instead of DIN, etc...
So what I do is what I have learned to do: go back to the facts, which, in that case, would be words by Niki himself attesting what he did, for instance an interview in a respected period magazine (something we do have for the 308 GTB), and cross the information from different sources.
But a factory ad from this period as a trusted source information? That is indeed insufficient.

Rgds

 

Sorry, but this is not a serious article, only general information recycled, from second sources. It is obvious that the author doesn't know the subject very well when you read things such as "the 308 GTB lacked a real trunk" (there IS a trunk on the 308 GTB and you can actually use it for some luggage) or "many believe that the 308 GT4 has the same chassis than the GTB ot GTS, but it is not true", whereas it would have been more correct to say that the GT4 chassis appeared first, and was used as a base for the design of 308 GTB chassis, as one of the 308 GTB prototypes was indeed built on a shortened GT4 chassis.
As for the involvment of Niki Lauda in chassis development, I'm ready to believe it as soon as someone can show me an article from any serious period magazine in which Niki describes what he has actually done.

Rgds

 

I think this depends on your definition of "trunk". A "real" trunk, using conventional standards, would be a storage compartment with its own lid. The GTB/GTS lack that as you have to open the engine compartment to access a zippered compartment that's acting as a trunk. Is that useable as a trunk? Sure, it holds a pretty decent amount of stuff too. But I can see why some folks wouldn't consider it a "real" trunk. What other cars have zippered compartments under the hood acting as a trunk? I can't think of any.

And that's what makes you a reasonable person! If I find something of that nature, I'll send it your way. Factory ads, documentation, literature, period articles, etc., are used to prove many things when it comes to finding options, understanding build, judging a car, etc. So, that ad works for me, but it's not crazy that it doesn't work for everyone.

 

The problem you appear to have is you are hanging on to every word.
The trunk ….the guy said proper trunk .Dyerhaus ^ has gone through that .So then because of the authors to you incorrect “ fact “ then in your mind using that to call out the guy to invalidate everything else he said .

Let’s similarly drill down to your repeated “ I have never seen Lauda mention his GT 4 involvement “ wether book or interview .
If said book or interview was based on the 308 , why should the editor mention Laudas first day a kindergarten, his first girlfriend or indeed other activities within his brief in the mid seventies working for Ferrari .

Just because he’s not mentioned it , or if he has somewhere else you have not read it it does not mean he did not attend kindergarten, have a first girlfriend or indeed get involved with the development work of the GT 4 ( and others at Ferrari ) .

Dates
We know the gestation of the GT4 predates lauda s time , but we know when “ further developments “ the mirrors did change .Those dates match Lauda s dates .
Us cars , the dealers often did dealer fitments of the mirrors to the 308GTB/S , so given a blank canvas they a few did opt for the Lauda GT 4 mirrors .All Europe’s and U.K. and other market GT 4 mirrors are laudas 312 .EU other markets 308 s not GT 4 mirrors .

Again I used “ b “ suffix from memory and you corrected me ( quite rightly) it the pic was a “ t “ then went on to infer because of one tiny inaccuracy the whole piece was wrong .So what i clicked on the wrong Google image .Big deal .= You hung onto every word or more accurately a single letter .It did not change the context of the info I tried to share .

Why would he only work on one car the later 308 series when the factory gave both drivers a GT 4 to knock around in ?
That’s absurd to suggest he drove to work ( so did Carlos R ) in a GT 4 and throw himself into the development of ONLY the 308 GTB/S ……then drive home in a GT 4 and think nothing of it , never mentioned anything etc etc .

Yes chronologically Lauda did come late to the GT 4 party , but nether the less he had a hand in its further development the mirrors and suspension geo are the legacy .

Have you seen the film Rush with the pick up scene in the Pug 504 .As I said that’s what he was like he could read cars .?

 

@ nerofer

Go to 1.0 ish



So the pair of them sat like a pair of lemons in there daily GT 4 and never said anything when at work , Only opened there mouths about the 308 GTB .



Nice mirrors btw .

 

Yes, that's exactly my point. With the best of intentions, a publicity flier from the factory cannot be seen as a serious source of information; especially when you consider that, at the time, the 308 GT4 encountered the sales doldrums that we all know about in the USA, and that this flier seems tailored to suit this and boost the car reputation...

Neither do I give much consideration to articles written today by young men who didn't have the memories; the risk is to have a young guy writting today and not having the full picture, because he only have read one article or two, so he would be biased towards this or that perception: for instance: in France, the 308GT4 was very well received by the press - in know, cos' I was reading the press at the time - José Rosinski, himself a distinguished test driver, said "the best Ferrari to this day" and the sales were good; so, as a Frenchman who read the press at the time, the impression that is still lingering with me today is that ther is no need to correct any perception of that car, because the perception was very positive right from the beginning.
(By the way: I browsed the 12 "Sport Auto" issues for the year 1975 yesterday, and there never was the french equivalent of the add you posted, so perhaps it was only intended for the USA?)
I know very well that things I have written myself here and there are quoted in some Wikipedia articles without copyright (I don't care) but without cross examination with other sources...

Give me a period article by Paul Frère or anyboby of that caliber, or a description by Niki Lauda of his work, or by anybody who had been involved in the development of the car; that I would believe. I do make a hierarchy between the sources; always have, always will.

Rgds

 

Sorry, does not make any sense to me.
"Rush" is a nice movie, but takes a lot of liberties with the 1976 season, so it does mean exactly nothing as far accuracy of the period goes. Do we have a proof that Niki had a GT4 as a company car? Apart from "Rush" I mean...
As for the rest: I have quite an extensive collection of period magazines from the seventies: never saw anything in any of these about Lauda's involvement in the 308GT4 development, whereas I've seen a few articles about his involvement in the 308GTB development in his - quoted - own words; with pictures of the 308 GTB prototypes still with the "Dino" badge, by the way; articles in which Niki goes rather in details about what he found, what he tried to change, etc...so here there are no deductions, but a witness. I' don't make any extrapolations, deductions etc..; either we have a fact, or we haven't. A deduction does not work for me. There is a factory poster of Carlos Reutemann with a 308 GTS in October 1977 when the car was offered on the market, but Carlos said he wasn't involved in its development and didn't drove one. The custom of company cars came later, in the second half of the 1980s I would say.

Rgds