F355 CEL/SDL after storage for nine months | Page 4 | FerrariChat

F355 CEL/SDL after storage for nine months

Discussion in '348/355' started by Pepsi10, Aug 31, 2022.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Update: Normally the cables circled in red and yellow below are locked in place with a metal contraption(photo below). Securing them in this way keeps them away from the belts etc. But it puts a lot of pressure on both cables. I am 98% sure that the cable/connector circled in yellow below is my problem. If the cables are allowed to hang loose, as photographed below, the car will start fine. If, I lock them in place with the metal contraption, the car will not start. If the cables are allowed to hang loose, and I start the car, and gently push on the cable circled in yellow, the engine will stall and stop.

    The schematic from Ricambi does not show a part number for this connector/cable. I guess it is part of the huge cable coming from the ECU. So…not sure what my next step is. I need to rebuild this last connection, that connects to my new crank sensor/crank sensor cable, highlighted in yellow in the Ricambi schematic.

    Housekeeping: Qavion, I checked my gap between the crank sensor and the teeth, and made sure it was within spec, seemed like it was about 0.6mm. And I wanted to show you the shim that was installed in my car. It is at the very bottom. See how mangled it is? Bad. But anyway, I did not use it with the new Ricambi crank sensor. No shim was needed to have the sensor within spec.

    Any ideas appreciated. Thank you all for your help so far.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Carmellini and Qavion like this.
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,509
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Unfortunately, yes. I would do my best to try to repair the damage as it's an expensive harness and changing it is an engine out job. Looks like a horrible job (repairing at that point).
    This area is definitely a hotspot for cable damage.

    I don't know if it's normal or not, but my harness has nothing tying the sensor harness to that strange looking bracket. It's hanging free at that point. Here's mine (perhaps before I changed my engine harness)

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Congratulations on discovering the direct cause of the engine stalling. You just need to remove the connector crimps from the housing, strip away the rubber boot and insulation, find the broken wire(s), repair them, or replace them with new wires, and put the crimps back in the housing. It's really not a bad job if you have the right tools and parts.

    Tools: pin removal tool, crimper
    Parts: new rubber boot, some new pins, splice repair
     
    Pepsi10 likes this.
  4. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,276
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Sounds like the same problem I had and mention at the bottom of page 1.

    As Mitch said, pull back the rubber boot on the connector attached to the harness. Good chance a wire broke where it is crimped to the pin in the connector. Remove the old pin, strip the wire, crimp on a new pin and insert into the connector. If you like, replace all 3 pins.
     
    Pepsi10 likes this.
  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,276
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Just wanted to add that after you pull back the boot you may not be able to see a break. Pull on each connector and see if the insulation on the wire stretches. The wire may be broken inside the insulation.
     
    Pepsi10 likes this.
  6. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Thank you all for your ideas. Sincerely appreciated. I would be sunk if not for you guys. johnk, yelcab, qavion, thank you.

    I will play with the connector later today. I just spoke with Daniel at Ricambi. He thought he might be able to come up with the correct part number for that connector if I send him a photo, he felt it was probably from the company AMP. He doesn’t stock such connectors, but if he got me the part number, I might be able to find it somewhere, order it, and splice in a new connector.

    Yeah Qavion, the setup on my car, which I think was stock, was the crank sensor has a trapezoidal shaped bit of plastic on the connector end. That trapezoid is locked into that metal piece I showed you guys. But! It is a very tight fit. So on my old crank sensor that plastic trapezoid had a crack, you can see that photo a couple posts above. I think because it is forced into this trapezoid holder. But more importantly, that mounting solution forces a lot of pressure on both sides of the connector. I could feel it as I was putting it all back together. It is secure, looks tidy, but it puts a lot of pressure on both connectors. If, if, I get everything working, I want to think about whether to use that sort of mounting contraption. The plastic trapezoid on the new crank sensor, it has to be forced to get it into the mounting metal piece, not good for longevity/recipe for future problems. Even if I filed a little plastic off the new crank sensor, which would allow it to fit into the metal mount, there still is a lot of pressure on the connectors.

    Side point, when the car was not starting, I checked my fuel pump fuse, and I checked the relay. Both seemed fine.
     
    Qavion likes this.
  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,276
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Qavion likes this.
  8. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Thank you, you, you guys, have made my day.
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,509
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    @MAD828 may be able to help you locate the rubber boot for the sensor (if he’s not too busy). He does lots of this kind of thing during his restoration work.
     
    Pepsi10 likes this.
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,509
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    The confusing part is that Mike is getting an SDL (even with both thermocouples bypassed).

    Hopefully, the crank sensor wiring is all that is broken and we can add this quirk to our faultfinding database.
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,276
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    I think that before anyone jumps to conclusions it has to be confirmed that a wire is broken or what the source of the dropped signal is. As for the SDL, I have no idea. Just try to fix what you know is broken and move on.

    FYI, the entire connector kit is available with the boots, or you can google EV1 boot.
     
    Pepsi10 likes this.
  12. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Yes. Today, I carefully peeled back the rubber boot and looked at wires, and the three pins of the connector. I can not see that any of the three are loose, or damaged, or wire damaged. I tried pulling on each with some needle nose pliers, but they all seem locked in place. But I did not try to remove the pins.

    When the connector is connected, but hanging free. The car runs perfect. I had it up to >7000rpms today. The first time it has run 100% this year. No lights, no codes, no stalls. Ran perfect.

    But, when I try to lock the connector in place, or even straighten this connecting wire/when there is any pressure on the connection, the car will not even start. It just cranks.
    I need to take the pins out of the connector and see if there is anything going on.
    Very strange.
    Observation: There is a wire coming off the alternator, it is a ground wire, and it is chafing the connector wire we are talking about, the rubber layer of this connector wire was chafed away, and there was a “fabric” layer visible, in an area about half an inch long. I would think if there was any damage, it would go beyond this fabric layer, and I would be seeing bare wire.
    Bottom line, there is a 8 inch or so piece of wire and the connector, that is somehow responsible for this problem. Just need to find where in this 8 inches or so, there is the issue. It seems like it should be the connector, but everything “looks” fine with the connector.
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,509
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    This is where a wire tracker might come in handy. You can attach the wire tracker "transmitter" to a single piece of wire and use the tracker "receiver" to scan the length of that wire for breaks.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/154672920121?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    They can be bought fairly cheaply, but they have their limitations/shortcomings.

    The transmitter induces a high frequency signal into the wire to make the wire act like an antenna, but the wire can induce signals into good wires. They are not so helpful finding breaks in thick wiring looms or in shielded looms. I don't know if the crank sensor wiring is shielded.
    You can adjust the sensitivity by adjusting the signal strength. Of course, this is more time wasted, more expense and some steep beginner learning curves.

    If you do buy one, make sure that you disconnect the Motronics ECU when testing.
     
    Pepsi10 likes this.
  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Did you replace that crank position sensor yet?
     
  15. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Yes. The car has the new crank position sensor from Ricambi, installed earlier this week, and I made sure the gap on that was correct.
    In the photo below, the new crank sensor/cable is on the right. When it hangs like this, the car starts fine and runs 100%.
    So I feel the problem is with the connector/cable on the left below, circled in yellow.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Thank you Qavion. I will think. For now, I will pull the three pins from the female connector we are talking about, and see if I can see any problems. If no problems there, maybe where I saw some chafing further toward the ecu of this same cable, I will cut away the insulation and make sure the wires underneath are fine?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,509
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Looking at the wiring diagrams, there is a shield (metal braid) on the wiring. This will probably make a wire tracker ineffective.

    You may have to cut the cloth/rubber insulation where you think the damaged area is and then try to penetrate the shield without damaging it. The problem may be that one of the wires is shorting to the other one or to the shield. You may be able to put an ohmmeter (with buzzer) on two of the plug pins (ECU disconnected) and wiggle the wire at various positions along its length to try to narrow down the damaged area. Repeat with various combinations of pin pairs.

    If you don't have crocodile clips and spare pins to make good contact with the plug pins, you may need a second pair of hands to hold the multimeter probes firmly on the connector pins/sockets
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,276
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Sounds like when clamped the vibration is causing a lose of contact. You might try taking a very small tip screw driver and scraping the inside of the contacts on the engine side of the harness to clean the contact of oxidation.

    I won't be cutting into the wire at this time. I'd be looking at continuity checks between the connector and the ECU while having some one push the wire around.

    You may have tried this already but with the connector clamped and engine running have you tried moving the wire around and see if the problem goes away?
     
  19. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Thank you for the ideas. I will try them. Yeah, I’ve been hesitant to cut the wire coming from the ECU.
     
  20. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    855
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Wanted to update. Turned out that two of three ECU wires that connect to the crankshaft position sensor had serious damage. One was almost completely severed. One was significantly damaged.

    90% chance this wire damage was caused by two belts that came off last summer. We have repaired these wires and the car is running well.

    I want to thank you guys for all your advice. With your help I was able to identify the damaged area.
     
    Teffers, Carmellini and Qavion like this.
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,276
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Or not. ;)
     

Share This Page