I remembered it as black but maybe wrong. Also I have dark blue so may not have looked close enough. Most cars the headrests are stuck in down position so can't see much. I move mine up and down from time to time to keep them from sticking.
https://www.drivingemotions.com/1990-ferrari-testarossa-c-678.htm Hey all, first time Ferrari buyer here looking into the 88-91 TR market for the past month or so, trying to find the poster car I cherished most on my wall as a kid. My perfect color combo would be black or white on tan/cream, so this checks some boxes. This seller is asking $140k, which seems to be right around or just below market currently. After reading around, I’m weary of the 5 year engine out service and the preventative drivetrain service, which I can’t get much information on yet from this dealer. What are your thoughts? Any advice would be helpful. Cheers
Not a TR expert, but aesthetically looks pretty nice (aside from the gold TR badge and cavallinos, the one with the broken leg on the front grille really needs to go). Front tires are 16 years old, so there's that.
after you own one and drive it for 10 miles you'll want to hang the car on your wall just like the poster and call it quits
?? I wanted a TR for decades. When I was fortunate to finally get one the driving experience was also quite wonderful. Literally within the first few seconds I realized I never would need to drive my 328 again. I have zero regrets trading it in. Was it perfect? No. Brakes could use help, tires as well. Both are easily fixable. Otherwise it was quite visceral.
I'm wondering about this.. is an engine modification like this a red flag? Also, I actually kind of dig the gold badges on a black car, but most would probably think this was tacky. Still haven't been able to get an inspection, but looking at the history, it seems like the car has been pretty regularly maintained, including a pretty big service a few years ago, though 1200 miles were put on the vehicle between January and April of this year between dealers. Is this a huge cause for concern? Here's the car fax, where you can see what I'm referring to: https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=aan_0&vin=zffsg17a8l0083563
What was so much different/better in moving from a 328 to a TR, in your opinion? Of course it's subjective, just curious as to your thoughts, as you said the TR made the 328 redundant to you. I've ridden in both, but have never driven either. Always wanted to have both someday
No, just more of applying a non-fix to the real problem (which is almost always electrical -- either poor/degraded connections between the ignition switch and the solenoid or a bad solenoid). I believe that the flat-12 starter position is much less of a thermal "problem", and the V-engine designs with the starter sandwiched between the engine block and an exhaust manifold are a much more difficult thermal situation for the starter (but don't have any data for that -- it's JMO).
Happy to discuss. A bit of background, I had a late 328GTS with the revised so called ‘convex wheel’ suspension but no ABS (the rare 88.5 car). In the revision, Ferrari stiffened the front to better control nose dive under heavy braking. I loved that car...we had it from 2002 - 2019. I had an open wallet approach to upkeep and loved to drive it... for about half of our ownership, it ran 575 18s running 200 treadwear autocross tires (Bridgestone RE11s). My TR is the late variant with the same revised (stiffer) suspension as the 512M (the so-called 512m suspension is really just the ABS suspension first used on later 512TRs). On my TR I am also now using the same class / 200 treadwear tires (Bridgestone RE-71rs, the modern / replacement version of the RE11). Both cars has near the same miles (upper teens). I mention all this as two cars can vary widely based on suspension generation, upkeep, and tire compound. Here I am somewhat controlling for this as best feasible (both later anti-dive first generation ABS suspensions, both on same class tire compounds). The short version is the TR does everything the 328 did in terms of visceral feel and feedback (with some exceptions), only subjectively better. Steering/Handling: Both cars have a lovely non-assist steering that is very different than other cars I was fortunate enough to own and drive (all of which had power assist). In that regard they are far closer to one another than anything else but with minor differences: - Steering is more precise on the 512TR with better weighting (both lighter but with better build up with speed). Both had excellent feedback/communication through the steering (maybe a hair more sensitive for the 328 but both are so good compared to any car made after 2000 its not even funny) - While the turning circle of the 328 was smaller, the heavier / slightly more numb steering makes it more of a chore - With factory-spec alignment/tire pressures, the 328 would understeer far more making it just not as fun to drive at 6-8/10 compared to the TR at the same level. Yes you could push the 328 with warm tires *much* *much* faster as using the RE11s the grip was extremely high...the problem was you felt like you were fighting it to overcome this 'hump' before everything just clicked. That 'hump' was the native understeer and the way it build up steering resistance. Summary: I didn't loose any of the non-assist, highly communicative steering by switching to the TR Braking: On original tires, both had good "70%" brakes with long (by modern standards) travel but nice linear feel and easy modulation. I say "70%" because both would easily get overwhelmed (tires squealing, slightly longer braking distances) in you manhandle them/drive them like modern cars brakes (they were both just not setup that way for obvious reasons). Instead if you drive both like an actual pre-ABS Ferrari with threshold braking, its much much better (and easier to do given both have long linear travel brake pedals). Both were equally bad in this regard BUT this 70% problem was purely an issue of tires / Pirelli's turning to stone after 3 or 4 years. - On proper high grip tires (i.e. Bridgestones mentioned above) braking easily matched any modern car (328) or exceeded it (512TR) with large safety margins even under emergency/sudden braking situations. Summary: Use good tires, you will be fine with very similar feel. Gearbox: The gearbox feels very similar to me. Both shifted much better after I drained/flushed with modern gear oil. Both don't like 2nd until really warm. Both have that magical Ferrari metal-click-click. Acceleration/Cruising: Both cars have proper mechanical throttles and a very direct pedal feedback (vs the multi-stage computer assisted pedals of modern cars). - The 328 is wonderfully visceral but not fast by any measure. It can maintain speed very well when pushed past its understeer hump (see handling above) but the low torque/power means you can really ring it out and enjoy the full RPM range. - The TR has quite a bit of pickup. Not modern "sub 4 sec" sports car obviously, but your torque reserves and broader power band is just wonderful. The slightest dip of the the throttle and you have instant response (no micro second delay of computerized throttles). - The TR has a little quarter window which makes checking your blind spot very easy. The cabin is quite airy / great visibility overall compared to the 328 where I would have to tilt my head more often to get a good view. - The 328's instrument cluster would reflect in the windscreen while driving and me sitting in my usual position. It was an interesting quirk the TR doesn't do. Summary: Like the steering, both are closer in the way the power is delivered, with near instant response and lively throttles. The low torque means you have to push the 328 harder to get the same outcome but partial throttle on the TR allows one to still play with the rev range in lower gears and not be too illegal..... Sound: Very different and subjective. Both have less insulation than modern cars so you can actually hear the damn things from the inside. - My 328 had a Tubi + testpipes. It was very nice in the upper RPM ranges with a loud grumble down low. It did have a bit of resonance in low RPMs as all Tubi's seem to do. I remember driving in the city and setting off car alarms of parked cars due the sound. - The TR is pure magic with its Tubi Race + OEM cat + tubi pre-cat delete/Euro Y pipe, OEM headers. NO DRONE. Wonderous full dynamic sound across multiple frequency bands and howl at higher RPMs. It is my favorite sounding car and much better than my 575 full Fabio header/cat/Hpipe, SS axle pipe, and OEM HGTC exhaust (which is also nice but just not as good). Summary: Its all subjective but I adore V12 music and despise drone Interior/Seating: Both cars have that distinctly Italian feel with the slight twist / angle to the center that I have only ever experienced in Italian cars (Diablos do it too) That said the seating position is more comfortable in the TR then the 328. I am 6'2.5'' and the TR just fits better. Both equally easy to get into but the 328 always felt like its a dress shirt a touch too tight vs the spacious/comfy TR. Other: No idea which has better stereo/audio system...I have never turned on my TR's headunit and I went nearly a decade between using the Apine unit in my old 328. The 328's audio was better than any of my E24s...but again who really cares? Both had quirky AC that alternate between working great or just not at all, ha! Areas I strong believe 328 was better: - Upkeep costs were much much cheaper with comparable reliability to date but given how close the two cars were in several areas vs others, I could not justify the 328's additional upkeep cost. Not when garage space is a premium, unfortunately. - The 328 was a Targa. With both it and my SL's departure I dont have any cars where I can cruise top down. I enjoyed that in very select weather but my balding head doesnt like the sun as much now. I don't miss it as much as I thought I though. - It is easier to squeeze the 328 in small areas as its a tiny car by modern standards (like taking a side alley). This hasn't come up in practice however for whatever reason. Feel free to ask any questions happy to ramble on. Also happy to compare against my 575 (its a technically better car than either the 328 or TR but who cares again all are old dinosaurs of a ever more distant era. The 328 and TR are much much closer in terms of feel to one another than the 575) Hanging a TR on the wall means you lose 90% of the magic (sound, steering, braking, shifting, etc)
Mostly kidding with a little truth, I always forget to a put the lol or sarcasm emoji on the end, I'll work on that
Thanks so much for taking the time to write that up, and for sharing your perspectives comparing the two! I really appreciate it. They were both dream cars of mine as a kid, but don't think I've ever seen a direct comparison. Food for thought...
I appreciate your kind words. If there is any aspect in particular your curious about, I am happy to go in further detail here or offline
I know this, because when you are used to drive with 2 outside mirrors it is hard to change only to 1 mirror when the first single TR came out those mirrors we caleld in germany ladle
