The end of the 'pay' driver in F1? | FerrariChat

The end of the 'pay' driver in F1?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Nuvolari, Sep 23, 2022.

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  1. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    With Latifi losing his seat at Williams it had me think is this the end of the pay driver in F1?

    Allow me to explain my rational because there is some perspective here. First of all the new budget cap and distribution of prize money in F1 (at a time when it is commercially more popular than ever) means that teams will be more profitable than ever. This means that they will not need to rely on the cash of a pay driver and will be able to afford to pay for outright talent rather than for a driver who brings budget. I say outright talent because any driver near the F1 level is very talented but may lack those final few percent to compete at the top level.

    Of course there are indirect exceptions that will never be gone from the sport as it is a pipe dream to believe that the BEST 20 drivers will ever make up the F1 grid. From the top of my head these are the outliers:

    - A driver who is closely tied to a team supplier (ie. Yuki to Honda)
    - A driver who is closely tied to a team (ie. Stroll)
    - A driver who is closely tied to a sponsor which can bolster a team's budget (ie Alonso with Santander or Perez with Telmex)

    That does not make these pay drivers but they do come with certain connections that will advantage their negotiations with a team over others. That's just life and a driver who gets to F1 nowadays does not do so without excellent management and connections.

    Again this thought is only at the F1 level. Racing in all the junior categories will be populated with super wealthy drivers and that is a whole different discussion. Below F1 is a pay to play sport with no real prize money or exposure to leverage the expense.
     
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  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That was the case with Latifi; Sofina Foods, his sponsor, is the family enterprise.
    Same for others, like Marcus Ericson.
    In fact "sponsored drivers" will not disappear in my estimation, because they are most of the time linked to the team budget.
    But what is satisfying, in my view, is that, for a few years now, those pay drivers had to obtain their Superlicense by merit.
     
  3. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I find the super license thing simply a way to limit F1 drivers and the money. I was always ok with buying your way into F1. it usually did not mean much and spiced things up - and gave more cars to clear.
     
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  4. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Latifi was really the definition of the pay driver. The fact Sofina was on the cars was very much secondary and they were never really a 'team' sponsor.
     
  5. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Personally, I have absolutely no objection to people who buy their way into expensive sports like powerboat racing, air racing or car racing.
    They usually bring lots of money that benefits those sports.
    The FIA made the conditions to obtain the Superlicense more difficult, and I am OK with that too.
    In the end, you can only win if you are talented enough.
     
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  6. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Agreed. Gentleman drivers can be the lifeblood of the sport. That said at the pinnacle the fact that it can occur is absurd to even the most casual fan. Imagine being able to buy your way onto any professional sports team. For years I have explained to people that in F1 some of the drivers PAY to be there and the shock is always the same. Not only that the system is such that it is expected that a driver (especially one who has not proven themselves) bring money as part of the package. Again at the F1 - final step - professional level this notion belies logic.
     
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  7. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Pay drivers in the lower tiers of racing are fine but F1 is pinnacle and should not have pay drivers IMO
     
  8. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

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    Oh heck, I don't see anything changing with pay drivers. Even with budget caps, it's a ridiculously expensive sport.
     
  9. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Pay drivers exist because teams need money. If you reduce the amount of money a team is allowed to spend AND you raise the revenue the team can make through better prize money distribution and a more marketable championship (all things that are currently happening) then you eliminate the need for a team to take on a driver who is not as good as someone else who cannot bring cash. Simple.
     
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  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    We could ban sponsorship too, in that case, because many drivers are only in F1 because of their sponsors.
    Sponsors that have paid for them to reach F1, still want a say in their career.

    Also, I don't agree that F1 is the pinnacle. It's only the top of the single-seater pyramid, and no more.
    Taking the blinkers off, Endurance, rallying, rally-raids, even NASCAR are other worthy disciplines that have their star drivers too.
    Sebastien Loeb 9 times World Rally Champion and 8 times Monte-Carlo Rally winner, or Tom Kristensen who took a record 8 times Le Mans 24 hours wins are probably at the same level of skills as Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton were (both 7 times WDC), but they are ignored in F1 circles. Same for Dale Earnhart with his 7 Winston Cup in NASCAR, another speciality.
     
  11. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    I think if you stop anyone on the street they will tell you F1 is the pinnacle of racing and as a generalized statement they would be correct. Of course when you get into real knowledgeable enthusiasts the answer is much more complex but there is little doubt that the 20 drivers that make up the F1 field really should be among the very top the sport has to offer. Things like rally, and NASCAR are different branches of the sport (and are their own specialties) but the 'biggest meaning' the most fans and most money is F1.

    Ironically in top level LeMans / Endurance racing there are less pay drivers than in F1 in fact I can't think of any at the LMP1 level. It is also fair to say that Endurance racing is generally made up of drivers who aspired to F1 but either did not make it or are racing AFTER F1. With the Exception of Brendon Hartley and one race for Andre Lotterer I can't think of any driver that used Endurance racing as their springboard to F1. Even then those two examples are of endurance careers that came after stalled single seater attempts.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    In the last 30 or 40 years, F1 has benefited of better exposure because it has been better promoted, mostly when Bernie Ecclestone took it over and transformed it from a glorified club level discipline to a professional sport. That's why the man in the streets knows F1 more than anything else.
     
  13. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

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    As long as more people want to do it (a lot more) than seats are available, F1 drivers are going to pay.
     
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  14. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    But other big-time sports are not like this. The big money sports leagues have plenty of would-be athletes, and yet none of them take paying participants. F1 seems to be unique in the inability to get enough well-funded teams.
     
  15. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    I don't care how any of them get there. The talented fast ones rise to the top. The slugs fade away or at least keep some cars on the grid for appearances sake.
     
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Even Niki Lauda bought his first F1 seat, and there are many more.

    Same was said about Nelson Piquet and Didier Pironi who then became fully fledged professionals.
     
  17. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    If they can´t get in paying they´ll buy the whole team, but there always will be rich daddies.
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, but only as long as they can obtain a Superlicense.
     
  19. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    Again, with money: they´ll pay for a seat at Prema or another good team and even if they can´t win, after a few seasons they´ll have enough points. Latifi has a license after all.
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You cannot blame the pay drivers for following the rules !
     
  21. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Most people would not know about F-1. as for 20 of the best drivers - no. its about 8-10 max.

    Hamilton
    Verstappen
    Leclerc
    Sainz
    Norris
    Bottas
    Vettel
    Riccardo
    Alonso
    the rest are so, so - and would be mid pack - much like Alonso showed when he was at Indy.
     

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