Budget Cap Enforcement | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Budget Cap Enforcement

Discussion in 'F1' started by Temerian, Sep 30, 2022.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Toto and Horner have been engaged in a media war for some time now.
    These budget accusations are just another another level of recrimination between the 2 principals.
    Until the FIA statutes on this issue, it's only speculations from all sides, but the media like to stir the pot.
    The ball is in the FIA camp, for having insisted on this budget cap, failing to monitor it in time, and now having to deal with the mess.
     
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  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, you would expect them to have that reaction, wouldn't you?

    It doesn't mean they are right: they only express an opinion defending their own interest.
     
  3. surfwolf

    surfwolf Formula 3
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    I was just refuting the B.S. that this is only Toto's doing. And yes I do want Red Bull hammered hard if this is true.....
     
  4. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    I knew enforcing the budget cap would be difficult if not impossible.
     
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  5. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am a bit of an anarchist in this matter, since I believe that budget cap is nonsensical.
    So I wish that nobody respects it and gets away with it.
    I follow F1 because I am interested in racing, not to watch an Accountants Championship.
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    We're then also assuming that the documents, audited by one of the big 3 auditors (so chance it's a public company at that), similarly risked their name and reputation....
     
  7. surfwolf

    surfwolf Formula 3
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    I agree it should be unlimited. It should be the ultimate in motorsports. But since the FIA made the limit, they need to enforce it very sternly if it was violated.
     
  8. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

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    Do not worry, Max will not win the title this weekend. And Christian said that they didn't breach the budget cap.
    So, let's wait who tells the truth.
     
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    He's winning it in Suzuka.
     
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  10. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

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    Most probably. Then wait until 2022 budget cap audits :D
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    But how can you reconcile being against a rule, and still wanting it to be enforced ?

    That budget cap is an ass, and whoever transgress it has my sympathy.
     
  12. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Are you thinking about Mercedes right now ?;):D
     
  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am thinking about anyone: I don't have a dog in that fight, and you know it.

    The budget cap is a daft idea and I wish it hits the buffers very soon.
     
  14. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    +1

    When Toto was asked if he had been stirring the rumour pot he reacted very nervously.
     
  15. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

  16. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #91 jgonzalesm6, Oct 2, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
    Dutch news reports that Red Bull Racing and Aston Martin fined 7.5 million and less time in the wind tunnel.

    If true.....that's it!!!!!


    This is of course a possible rumor.
     
  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Spread by Jack Plooij, a man whose main job is dentist and gives Eddie Jordan a run for his money for making enough claims that eventually, one comes true...
     
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  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Funny !:p
     
  19. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Veteran

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    A budget cap for the pinnacle of motorsports is ridiculous. However, if it is a part of the rules you agreed to abide by, then so be it. You break it, you are penalized. The harder you break it, the harder the penalty. If not, rules are a sham.

    If F1/FIA really wants to enforce this budget cap, they will need to start up a F1 bank/accounting/payroll service. Teams deposit their budget in the bank and all expenditures are drawn from the account. F1 can make money like a regular bank on the float. lol
     
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  20. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    If the penalty for spending over the budget cap is a simple fine and alleged less windtunnel time, then the budget cap is officially dead. It's like team orders. It's a rule only in the book and not something that can be enforced.

    Ferrari, McLaren, and Renault are fools if they comply with the budget cap going forward, seeing how the FIA are never going to take points away from Red Bull or Mercedes for ignoring it so blatantly.
     
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  21. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    This !
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Before the budget cap was ever implemented but discussed, many of us raised the same points: How do they intend to police it in a timely fashion? Especially since the time it takes to do the audits for such massive companies is insane. There is no way they can get it done before the prize gala, let alone before the new season start!

    And with the way the current budget cap rules are written, teams can create whatever they like, so long it doesn't get fitted to the car on a race weekend, all those expenses (every single one!) is cost that doesn't count. We are fools to believe that the top teams don't spend more than 145 million (that includes Ferrari!). What gets put on the expense report is a story....10 months later when the audits are finished.

    Talk about an anti climax.

    ----

    So what is the fix to this? Well it's already there. The limited wind tunnel/CFD time based on championship position. Easy to police (people/electric companies tend to notice when the wind tunnel gets turned on), and quite literally the teams spend just as much money anyways, except we have the results of a breach immediately instead 9/10 months after, or indeed accusations of a breach. If RBR has played fair the vast majority of people will still stick to this story that they cheated anyways. All Toto needed to do was plant the seed. Truly the newest minister of propaganda.
     
  23. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    I went through @tgruener timeline on tech updates just for kicks. What you'll see below is all of the tech updates of the big three disclosed in reverse from today, all the way back to Bahrain testing.

    No, it wasn't just peoples imaginations that Red Bull spent and developed way more than Ferrari, and Mercedes was even more clear.

    Ferrari

    Beam Wing, Rear Wing, Beam Wing, Beam Wing, New Floor, Engine, Mirror, Sidepod Undercut, Rear Wing, Mirror, Rear Wing, Floor, Rear Brake Winglet. Rear Wing.


    Red Bull

    Floor fence, Beam Wing Flap, Engine Cover, Rear Wishbone Shroud, Floor Fences, Rear Brake Winglets, Engine Cover, New Floor, Front Corner, Front Brake Cooling, Floor Edge, Steering, Front Brake Cooling, Front Wings Flaps, New Floor, Rear Brake Cooling, Splitter Wing, Front Wing Endplate. Sidepods, Diffuser, Front Wing, Floor.

    Developed but not used: Lighter Monocoque


    Mercedes

    Front Wing Flap, Beam Wing, Front Wing Endplate, Floor Fence and Edge, Rear Wing Flap and Tips, Halo, Rear Wing, Beam Wing, Floor Edge, Front Suspension, New Floor, Sidepod Inlet, Rear Suspension, Front Wing Flaps, Rear Wing Flap, Mirror, Front Wing Endplate, New Floor, Front Wing, Beam Wing, Rear Wing. Sidepod Inlet, Diffuser, Rear Corner Deflector. Sidepods, Diffuser, Floor.
     
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  24. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    I want this to be clear: I believe every team has a right to spend what it wants. The bean counters at teams like Alfa Romeo and Williams pinning that if there's a cap they'll be able to win are delusional. Either sell your team to someone with a budget, or settle for scoring points and the lucrative profits you get for being mid-packers to backmarkers.

    Last year, Mercedes underestimated Red Bull, who told the FIA to get F'd on their silly budget rule, and developed to the last race to win the title. It wasn't that Mercedes had some moral problem with spending a boatload of cash, it's that they didn't think they'd need to outdevelop Red Bull. Now this year, Mercedes are giving the FIA the finger on the stupid budget cap, and I don't blame them one bit.

    Say what you will about Horner and Toto, but they live and breath winning. They want to win badly, and they had the wisdom to realize if they were found out it would be a financial penalty, like back in the day when team orders were "illegal", but everyone still did them.

    Ferrari were suckers, pure and simple. Red Bull and Mercedes are schooling them on how it's done.

    You know what Todt and Brawn would do next year? They'd spend like crazy building a car around Leclerc, have no shame telling Sainz to move over, they'd fire people for mistakes made twice, use research the Ferrari LMH as an in season F1 testing ground and give the media and critics the finger while they did it.
     
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  25. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    That's exacly what they would do..and rightly so!
     

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