812 Replacement Rumors

Am I allowed to plant my flag as first to that hot take?

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148653959/

But yeah, that's what's been indicated to me as well.

Without wishing to be vulgar, here's the question ... if it does indeed turn out to be a mild hybrid, does the 812 stand as the last NA V12 GT car, or are people going to do their best semantic summersaults to try to twist the mild hybrid into some kind of definition of NA? More importantly, how will history look at it?

 

In that earlier post you wrote about electrification without a battery, I dare say that is not possible (semantics aside, any type of capacitor acts like a battery but is not particularly good at being a battery), so 48v would always include a battery of some sort to draw upon...

That said, Ferrari has released a 48v system in the FUV for the suspension system (not for the drivetrain), so, would Ferrari bother with creating a "new wheel" of a 48v system, I think not, they have already developed a "power assist" method using a full battery hybrid (i.e. SF90/296), why would they create a new 48v system for drivetrain assistance? Seems like that would be a one-off system never to be seen again?

As for your question, if the F167 is a hybrid of any flavor (drivetrain-wise) then it is something else, and the 812SF/GTS are the end of the line (just like the F8 is the end of the line, as the 'next' creation will always feature a battery hybrid until it is full BEV...and for that final model, Ferrari named it the Tributo)...

 

Regular production and GT. Which are two conditionals to come up with a "last" NA. There have been several after the SF and will continue to be. I don't think it matters much anymore.

 

Once again people are confusing Naturally Aspirated and Electrically Assisted

The fact that the car is hybrid or not has nothing to do with the fact of being naturally aspirated or force fed

LaF is a NA Hybrid
SF90 is a force fed Hybrid

That's why I suggest to use the "Pure NA" moniker for a Naturally aspirated, unassisted internal combustion engine

 

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812 Replacement？

 

YES

F167 Mulotipo

 

With an asterisk: *pre GPF

 

How about UNA? Unassisted Naturally Aspirated


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Pretty much perfect. Seal of approval !

 

Curious as, even though we know it's just a mule with the Roma panels, the Ferrari Roma design looks much better with these V12 mule proportions than the proportions of the real Roma. And, of course, with the pure V12 running under the hood.

The even shorter rear end and the elongated hood, wider body, with the lines of Roma, unintentionally resulted in a very beautiful mule.

day355, an unprecedented question: will the F167 be even more beautiful than this mule?

 

possible to see different mule(s)before end of the year.

 

That sounds really good.
Just not as high pitch as 812 that I prefer.
Is the reveal still about a year out?


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What’s the square flap visible above and behind front right wheel arch - but not on left?

Also, odd piece sticking out (fuel filler cap?) on top of rear right haunch?


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https://europe.autonews.com/environmentemissions/tough-euro-7-pollution-rules-planned-adoption-month

 

I was told recently by a Ferrari dealer that the reason the purosangue had less power than the 812 despite using the same engine was due to homologation constraints and that could imply Ferrari won’t be able to homologate a more powerful version in say 2/3 years time unless with some form of hybrid / assistance possibly also in more limited numbers. I was wondering if anyone had heard a similar story?

 

That doesn't sound right, given they just homologated the 812 Competizione and the SP3. Ferrari themselves have said that they decided to make the engine more torquey low down and less of a screamer, due to the car's remit.

 

That is false, the power reduction is only because of the progression from the FF/Lusso, no need to jump up the horsepower to the "super car" level when a nice increase from the Lusso will do.

The only homologation restraint on the FUV is GPF. The engine was specifically detuned, the top rev limit was also reduced. Leaves room for future FUV enhancement.

The SP3 was released less than a year ago with +100HP using that same engine, nothing has changed to warrant such a result requiring a horsepower reduction to meet homologation requirements.

 

Yes, GTS version is planned as well following 6 months after coupé

Luque

 

Let me guess 'very limited"...!?

 

I presume the FUV will be consuming most of V12 production, so the F167 might be very limited availability, coupe and gts...

 

So the 812 is really the end of the true production V12 F autos.

 

To me, it is true, however, can Ferrari make the magic happen one more time?

It may be very difficult, the drive-by noise regulations really tighten up for new models with first production in 2024...If the F167 can be put into production earlier....

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40111-018-0010-7

Excerpt here...:

This regulation set PB (Pass-By) noise limits to 72 dB (A) as of 2016 (812SF and 812GTS) and also defined future emission reductions with limits of 70 dB (812c/812cA/FUV) by 2020 (phase 2) and 68 dB (A) (F167) by 2024 (phase 3).

Simultaneously, this regulation put an updated pass-by measurement method (ISO 362-1:2015) into effect: It calculates the final “pass-by noise level” as a weighted average of the noise emitted by the vehicle in a full-load acceleration and at constant speed, resulting in amore representative measurement of typical urban driving habits.

New methods and considerably reduced pass-by-noise limit values will challenge the automotive industry. PB noise homologation data that is currently available indicates that less than 30 % of European cars complies with noise level limits set by phase 3. However, 70 % of all vehicles are in line with the phase 2 noise emission limit.

 

Actually what’s strange is to see a mulotipo wearing a stretched Roma body, with a sonority of a V12 and a engine bay long enough to fit a V12, but with a body that doesn’t wear any « electric » sign showing it’s a car with batteries and electric motors. Thus, that could make us think and hope the magic is still here and that the natural aspirated and non assisted V12 is still in the pipe and on the schedule.

 

It was strange until I understood that the F167 will be using Ferrari's new modular chassis that started with the Roma:
https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/corporate/articles/ferrari-roma-la-nuova-dolce-vita-takes-shape

The Ferrari Roma's chassis benefits from the modular technology developed by Ferrari for its new generation models; bodyshell and chassis have been redesigned to incorporate the latest weight reduction and advanced production technologies. In fact, 70% of its components are entirely new.

I am confident there will be no electric drive though there may be 48v system for the suspension (i.e. from the FUV). A 48v system is below the 60v warning level, so no electric warning badges.

As for 'pipes', I presume there will be a 'hot tube' to pipe in engine bay intake sounds to the passenger cabin...