I’ve been driving with very low oil level | FerrariChat

I’ve been driving with very low oil level

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by belfry, Mar 14, 2022.

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  1. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    About 500 miles ago I had my radiator and oil cooler removed so that the rad could be rebuilt. They also replaced an oil line as a precaution. All went well with no issue. 1995 456gt.
    I have a trip coming up this week so I decided to check the oil level today. Hot oil, engine off. The dipstick was dry! I had to add 3 quarts of oil to get back to midway between the high/low marks.
    The oil light goes out after the car is started so I know the light works, but there was no warning light on the dash. Oil pressure seemed fine since the repair and oil temp has also been fine. There is no oil on the garage floor.

    I’m starting to think that they did not top up the oil after removing the oil cooler. The car runs fine and I’ve only done gentle local runs since the work.

    Please help me to sleep soundly by telling me that it’ll be fine.
     
  2. rhern213

    rhern213 Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2021
    578
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Richel
    #2 rhern213, Mar 14, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
    If the car was running fine with no low oil light, and your oil pressure and temps were as they should be then there's nothing to worry about. A couple of quarts low over 500 miles won't do anything. Drive in peace.

    I would contact the shop who did the work and tell them just so they're aware of the mistake.
     
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  3. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    Thank you. Thank you.
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,269
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    How long did you wait after switching off the engine before checking the oil?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  5. DreamCarrera

    DreamCarrera Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2006
    825
    S.E. PA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Something to consider...someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

    I think the 456/550/575 engine takes about 10.5 qts. of oil for a standard oil change (using the drain time recommended in the car's manual). However, the total oil capacity of the engine is over 13 qts. IIRC, some owners have had to add up to 12 or 13 qts. of oil when doing an oil change with a long/extended drain time. In doing the repair work on your car, the shop most likely drained 12 or 13 qts. of oil from the engine but, perhaps, mistakenly only refilled the engine with 10.5 qts. as per the manual's guidance for a standard oil change. This scenario could account for your engine being about 2 qts. below the min. mark on the dipstick.

    I can understand your concern with driving the car low on oil, it certainly would have caused my OCD to flare-up. However, I think your engine will be fine. If there is indeed over 13 qts. of total oil in a topped off engine, running with it low by only 2 qts. for 500 miles (especially if those miles didn't include high RPMs or g-forces) should not have caused any damage.
     
  6. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    I checked the oil immediately after stopping the engine.

    I have just checked the invoice for the radiator repairs are they did not charge me for any oil at all. I think that they did not top up the oil lost during the works.
     
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  7. DreamCarrera

    DreamCarrera Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2006
    825
    S.E. PA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    My previous post was made under the assumption that the shop drained the oil (and then completed an oil change) in the process of replacing an oil line on the car...
     
  8. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    Thanks Eric. I assumed that they’d at least replace the lost oil!
    Lesson to myself, always check fluid levels after someone else has worked on your car.
     
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  9. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    I changed the oil back in April this year. I checked the oil today and the dipstick was dry again!!

    I checked the oil when the engine was hot. Engine off then check oil.

    I added 3 quarts to get to minimum level. There are no oil leaks on the garage floor..no smoke from exhausts ever, even when accelerating hard. No oil in the coolant.

    Could I lose 3 quarts of oil without noticing?
     
  10. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
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    Robert Batt
    Oil pressure was good. Oil temp normal. No warning lights on.
     
  11. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Nov 21, 2020
    1,879
    Indianapolis
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    Nick
    Its gotta go somewhere then..

    If you can get under your car, see whats covered in oil and blown back along the undercarraige.

    No oil in the coolant hopefully. That could also mean valve guides.
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,163
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    No heat exchanger on our V12s like the V8s, so a blown head gasket or holed cylinder liner would be about the only way to get coolant in the oil or V.V. Lots of other symptoms if either of those happens.
     
  13. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    I would check the crankcase ventilation system for excessive blow-by. How does your plugs look like?
     
  14. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    The underside of the car is dry, with no oil dripping on the garage floor, not even a drop. And no smoke from the exhaust.
     
  15. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
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    Robert Batt
    I won't be able to check the plugs until the weekend, but I drove the car to London last night which is about 140 miles. The car runs beautifully with no warning lights at all. I am guessing that fouled plugs would have made their presence known on a journey like this, with fast A roads, motorway and London traffic?
     
  16. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    With excessive blow-by the plugs can get slightly oily, not on the electrodes which can still look fine (if the mixture is correct), but around the ceramic and threads. I experienced this on another car which was otherwise running fine as well.
     
  17. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
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    Robert Batt
    Thanks Timmo, I did not know that. I will pull a few plugs out at the weekend. I’m missing 3 litres of oil though, could this much oil be lost in this manner without any symptoms?

    I’m beginning to think that I must have under filled the car when I did the oil change in April or May this year. Although I am usually so careful about this. I would have checked after the oil change a few times as well. Very strange.
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,089
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall
    Almost certainly valve guides. Catalytic converters so completely burn the oil smoke is a very rare symptom.
     
  19. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
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    Robert Batt
    I thought that a symptom of failing valve guides would be some smoke on a cold start after a week or 2 of sitting in the garage?

    The emissions were also all ok at the last MOT check. Wouldn’t excessive oil in the exhaust show up in the emissions tests?

    I just remembered. When I had a misfire due to a broken ignition lead this summer the Ferrari trained mechanic checked all 12 spark plugs and only found an issue to the plug with the broken ignition lead. Would failing valve guides show oil on the plugs?

    Oh, and the car idles perfectly.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,089
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    Brian Crall
    Do we need to argue now?


    A. The cars are known for guide problems.
    B. The oil keeps disappearing which is a symptom of valve guides or rings
    C. It isn't the rings because they are made by the best company on planet earth
    D. it is probably not someone sneaking into the garage and sucking oil out of the tank.
    E. You said it is not leaking.

    So, it is either being stolen by little green men or you have a valve guide issue.

    How would MOT catch it? Did they do a compression and leak down test? Cars with a valve guide issue pass smog quite regularly. As I already stated cats burn the oil rather completely. As far as idling perfectly I have a 456 here right now that belongs to a man who currently has 7 Ferraris and has owned Ferraris for 40+ years. Very astute engineer. Car runs like crap and he never noticed. Why? Its a very gradual process and we adapt daily to it.
    People die every day who say they are feeling fine for the same reason.

    I can only base an opinion on what I am told. From what I am told you have a very high probability of bad valve guides. Take it or leave it.
     
  21. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
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    Robert Batt
    No rifledriver. No need to argue. I’m just asking polite questions. No need for sarcasm.

    I have a long awaited trip to Italy in the car in 2 weeks so some might be able to understand why I am asking politely about symptoms. Forums like these are all about thoughtful and courteous discussions as far as I’m concerned. That how I intend to conduct myself on here.

    Will this scupper my plans to take the Ferrari?
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,163
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Hopefully, it was just that the techs underfilled her. But, like Brian said, time to do regular checks in case you got some brass valve guides. Then a compression and bleed-down check. Some V12s had brass guides mixed with good bronze guides, so no telling which cylinders are affected.
     
  23. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    Thank you for your optimism Terry. I needed that.

    I have another 150 mile drive home tomorrow. I will carefully fill the oil to the correct level and see what happens to the level after 150 miles. I am still amazed that there is no smoke on start up, but others know better than me. I will get leak down and compression tests done on Monday.

    I’ve done about 2,500 miles since the oil change.

    The car is ‘95 6speed with 60k miles. The last owner drove 55k of those miles. He was the chief engineer for a British F1 racing team.
     
  24. LondonParis

    LondonParis Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2020
    504
    Houston/London/Paris
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    Bill Coates
    According to the 456 manual oil consumption is 1-2 liters per 1000km….maybe you can rest easy.
     
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  25. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    486
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    I called the mechanic to book the car in for leak down and compression tests. He suggested that I run my finger inside of each of the exhaust tips to feel for any oily residue. He also suggested that there would be some smoke from a cold engine left overnight before the cats warm up.
    I’ve just done this and all 4 were bone dry. I attach a photo.
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