C8 Z06

Oh Gm and others know braking, they also know their market and high margin options, same as cosmetic CF.
Wildskate and I are talking about real sustained track use. An example of what Gm knows is a $75K camaro Zl1 1lt, a car thats streetble enough to get to the track, it has iron rotors. Before you say its aless expesive car, the former z28 at same price had ceramics. The zl1 1lt is excluvely for track guys its a pretty terrible street car. in theory for the upcharge the vette has components enabling it to do both street and track better, thats what the vette rep's say.

Ferrari, theyre not really building streetable cars for the track thats pretty obvious in myriad ways. Lucca set the tone there, if youre only going to make 10K cars per year to maintain brand exclusivity, the way to really mint it is to have a bunch of really high priced options. porche does the same. Nothing wrong with that, its business marketing and knowing your customer, it works really well.

But when the rubber meets the asphalt in a serious way, some of those options like ccb's are expensive, pointless and superflous. Why would you pay $1300 per corner for a consumable wear item when you can get just as good to better for $500 per corner.

Again nothing against CCBs per se, but if you're seriously marketing a car to track guys (who are really going to use it), experience has shown time and again ccbs are just plain expensive for no gain in this context. That's why the Zl1 1lt has iron, thats why the pcar guys who buy a used Gt3 (for track) with ceramics swap them out for irons. Its also why you dont see ferraris and macalrens on track other than really occasionally, they are ruinously expensive to run there, and even billionaires respect money(i know about challenge cars and cup cars, thats a different category, not streetable and a wholly different economic proposition).

All I'm saying is Gm should (and according to the z06 rep will in future) offer the option of Irons on something like the z07 package, car that fits into the category of road car thats really fit for sustained track use, which imo is the future of real high performance driving for the non pro racer. I wish Gm would come out with the Zl1 and Zora so those who want the ultimate street car "that can blow everything away" can get that, freeing up the z06 to go hunting better in its natural habitat, the track. In the meantime were apparently forced to pay for a 10k option that for those of us who really are going to use the car as "intended" is both expensive and pointless and will be roved once worn. Now if someone can say that CCbs last 3x longer than irons or even 2x longer(on track) , then for sure they're worth the price, because the economics is similar and the hassle of swapping rotors halved.

on a factory turn key car on track(as opposed to a race car) pone assumes the basic powertrain(engine transmission) is turn key reliable. For the most part that's true and oter than oil changes(in hard track use) every 4 days shouldnt need much. That means the big cost items are Tires, every 2-3 days, brake pads and rotors.

there is also a question about transmission oil, I hear thats hard to change on the vette which could be an issue, because on track thats going to need some sort of annual or Bi annual change. Gm or better put chev knows what they're doing, thats why the zl1 1lt is so excellent, on the z06 so far they apparently also know marketing backorders and customer use.

 

Only 6 sec faster than a 992 GT3 over an ~14 mile track?

 

The extremely flashy 992 GT3 numbers were all Manthey cars. Sport Auto did a 6:57 in a "from the factory" 992 GT3.

 

Performante supposedly was 6.52, and that was if I remember correctly 20 secs quicker than anything else. Anything under 7 mins would have been unthinkable a decade ago.

Ring times are important, but they are only one measure, cars that are record breakers there are not necessarily as standout elsewhere.

in any event if the vette comes in around 7 mins that pretty much means the difference beyond that in another car is only really accessible by very few drivers and for the rest of us then comparing a Gt3(not rs) to a vette on track will be purely driver.

The Rs,thats something different especially on a regular track where hp is less of a differentiator(at this level) , all that adjustable aero is hard to beat, and fastest laptimes are more about speed through corners.

 

Ring times are so silly. Who cares?

 

^^^
Agreed.
The people that pay attention to Nurburgring times make up .0000001% of the sports car buying public.

 

Well, that and there’s not a direct link to how fast a car goes around a track in the hands of a pro and how enjoyable it is on the street. Certainly F1 cars are quickest and horribly compromised to the point 99.9999% of people couldn’t drive one 10 feet. If you make a car uncomfortable as hell for the street it may perform amazing on a track but be utterly useless for anything else. Street cars will 100% have compromises for the track and that’s a good thing. A ring time is irrelevant. Test driving/owning a car in the real world is the only way to really know it, not via facts and figures.

 

Agreed. all depends on intended use and the compromises one is prepared to make. The z07 is marketed as the track corvette though.
As to ring times theyre irrelevant for pretty much any oter track, and cars optimized for the ring tend not to be so great elsewhere, its a truly unique enviroment.

 

The relevance of the ring time for street or even another track is very questionable. Unfortunately, manufactures have discovered that while most sports car buyers are never going to have the skill or acess to really use their car, they do rely on and love the statistics of performance as a point of purchase. That's why car magazines devote entire issues to track tests and comparisons and why many manufactures chase otherwise irrelevant Nurberign times.
Thats why the z06/z07 is touted as racing derived and the corvette for the track, its why it has ccb's, cause thats "race" hardware.. In other words, for many buyers, too many some arcane lap statistic and hardware roster is the driver of the purchase choice. Look how many ferrari owners think thay have a"race car" for the road because ferrari races f1.

Its sad because as you hint at, cars developed for a great ring time, are often horribly compromised elsewhere, be that the street, or even other tracks. But yes it is a performance measure and for many the badge of honor highly relevant to their purchase choice and bar counter brag. Meanwhile yes 99% of these expensive performance cars are driven by grey hairs maybe 5mph above the speed limit, often to a cars and coffe, reteraunt or golf club. As the saying goes about a cars performance, "not that you would, but you could" and thats enough for most.

 

True its an irrelevant performance metric for other tracks and pointless. But as a marketing tool for fast cars it is a major driver of sales. All about the bar room brag.

 

Hence, IMO, 991.2 GT3 >> 992 GT3.

 

True that Ring times are largely irrelevant for the buying (and driving) public.

But one area where they do have relevance, is to show the iterative improvements in each generation of a car within the same product line.

Could you imagine if the 991 GT3 lapped the Ring faster than the 992 GT3 (assuming the same Ring length)? The Internet might break. Literally.

 

Amen

 

my take on rs vs z06 is that aero will continue to improve especially when everything is ev and no need for radiators, etc. but tthere will never be a better engine than the one in z06 so this is the car to have

 

that is a great point

 

Isn't driving around a track and not actually racing considered posing by those that actually race their cars? I know with motorcycles it sure is. Glass houses and all that.

 

Depends on who you drive with and how you define "driving". Some groups are filled mostly with racers and former racers, theyre practicing learning and what we might call friendly jousting. A lot of racing is not a means to earn a living too, nor is it creating new tech, its sport, so it all depends. Id say many a group sets a far harder and faster pace than say people historic racing which all too often in the usa is a parade lap with maybe 3 cars going for it.

Some of the best surfers in the world dont necessarily compete, although they may really enjoy being with like-minded friends.

I know it took me maybe 7 years on track and two race schools plus some single seater racing to get to a level where the pros considered me worth even talking to, as in their pearls of wisdom wouldn't be wasted as maybe I could absorb some of it. The fastest guys are not in the fastest cars. So you're judged on how well you do with the car you're in.

From my limited observation of motorcycles at some tracks, its very much a youth game, and youre goign to come off, which is also a youth game. Cars, there is many an older guy been running that same car on that same track for decades who can crack off some really impressive lap times.

call it friendly competition.

Where it falls apart is people showing up at DE events with overly powerful cars like vettes who floor it down the straights and relatively tiptoe though corners, obsessing over Tyre pressures and lines. I guess its all fun, but some groups even the advanced levels are filled with these guys(its a business), can be a vette a Gtr an old nascar mclaren. they tend also not to notice people behind and create trains. Different orgs cater to different people and its all about having fun with the car.

Thats all very different to a group of pros who go to their own open track day, as in the track is open all day, no groups just go out and come in all day as you choose, everyone is vetted and knows what they're doing, passing is ok everywhere, there is certain strict etiquette which prevents race type accidents. Lapttimes are more along the lines of qualifying laps as opposed to slower race laps, with lots of jousting going on. The key is not how fast someone goes but that theyre predictable so as not a danger, and aware of cars closing on them. Youll have multiple cars capable of various speeds depending on car and driver, and its fun to try catch a car. learn where theyre good and then pass after afew ;laps, or try stay with someone better, and hopefully learn there too, Someone better could be in a "slower" car, but using their momentum better through some corners, so even though you could take them on faster sections you dont. There's lots of talking afterwards and sharing of info.

 

You make a lot of solid points. Motorcycle racing is not just for the young. My first AMA sanctioned event I was 43. I chatted with the guy in my heat. When I mentioned it was my first race he said good luck - "and don't ****ing crash into me". Different universe between tracking and racing. You practice on Saturday, race on Sunday. Race in all weather and year round. Always injured. Risk your life and your ride for a worthless piece of plastic and maybe cheaper parts. Miss it so.

 

great post, thank you.

thats why ius old dogs who still want that connection and energy do something like a lotus on track. The key is the right car and the right group.

even then no car will have that same level of connection, the machine as an extension of your brain/will that a bike has. Imo a full on track lotus comes closest and even then.

but you’re not getting banged up, and the weather is less of an issue. Making a relatively slower car go fast is it’s own art. Camping in the parking lot with mates it’s own fun. And traveling g to track as a gypsy it’s own appeal.

when I got in the lotus after a 12 hour service go over on my lift, to put it on Trailer and take it to winter storage, just sitting in that car it felt like my arms and legs were tendrils connecting to the machine. No road car no matter how “fast” is going to do that. To the extent it’s about mind machine melding into a seamless whole there are very few cars that can get there. Much as I admire caymans they always felt boaty to me like you’re surrounded by all this marshemellow mass. The 997.2 gt3 did not feel that way, but I was on road.

the Alfa 4c was one road car that really shrink wrapped around you on track and was stiff enough to really work there.

I don’t envisage a z06 as the everyday track car, rather an oportunistic feeder, a car to drive tot he track on occasion, ie a low effort low impact day. My Elsie is like that too, put the track wheels on at home drive 45 mins to lrp for a few hours.

the exige that’s always loading up the truck with tools extra bits tyres and wheels attaching the trailer, car on trailer etc. worthwhile for a 2-3 day adventure. Sometimes it feels not worth the effort(when loading up) but once there it’s clear that there is nowhere else I would want to be.

back to the z06, in my book any of these modern fast cars is pointless unless it can go on track too. Otherwise you’re just driving g around on the street holding back potential overkill.
I daily a 4 cyl 280hp Alfa gulia and even that is near overkill for the street if you’re using near it’s potential.that’s just my criteria though, I know most just enjoy owning a cool fast car with great sounding motor to drive about and the z06 works for that.

it’s like motorbikes the latest Ducati whatever sportbike, unless you’re living in the mountains of nc or Colorado is near pointless on road. Any number of naked bikes is going g to be more comfy with more go, braking and performance than can be deployed on road. That’s partialy why we see such success with bikes like the Triumph theuxtons bmw r9t Ducati monsters etc they simply have a great performance excess on road but still the balance to work on road.

I’ve searched and hoped for years for the holy grail car, great motor, smooth enough for road and yet buttoned down enough for track. I guess for a price the gt3 comes closest.

The z06 is more primarily road and it’s a “suoercar” that works and can dance on track, which is in a way it’s own thing.a category of 1. That’s great a suoercar that works on road, yet you can still wring it out on track. Maybe porche careers gt did this too.

I guess like shoes you can’t only have one pair.

if I had to split the difference between the exige and the z06 a gt4rs sounds right. Still got the energy to run the lotus and that car can be developed significantly quicker which is fun as a goal too.

my bbi though, drive that car 3x this summer, and even then it was sorta only because I took it off the lift to service the exige. The bbi is not too fast for the road, has great reactions/response and rewards with Chalenge and getting it right, yet it sits. If I sold it maybe that would be a regret a few years on, but space and time is an issue.
We’ll see when the z06 comes which is apparently years off if the length of wait lists maintains and production. Remains minimal.

 

The price configurator is finally up. Here's what I'm thinking. Comes in at $134,000 or 8 grand more for CCB's

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/corvette/z06/build-and-price/config


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This is kind of what I’m looking at…

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