SF 90 XX

Having both those 2 cars, and tracking both of them, no that is not the case. The weak point of the 765lt is his traction and the to narrow front and back tyres. The weak point in the sf90 is the weight, wich over laps eats tyres, and the hybrid wich at a certain point needs a charge lap when pushing constantly. (but you never run out of boost fot example on german untestricted highways on highspeed runs.)

99% of us will be in the get go faster with the sf90 on track due to his traction adventage, and the confidence you get out of the traction.

By the way may 765lt overheated on 2 hot laps on the Nürburgring, simular than my 675lt, the sf90 did not overheat, could be bad luck, could be a desing issue, (and i have the roofscoop on the 765lt)

 

Not sure this has anything to do with being a hybrid (which never hurt LaFerrari’s early years compared to Enzo and F50 early years) or 918 compared to CGT for example.

I think it has more to do with simple market dynamics, which shouldn’t come as a shock. Early buyers saw that it initially received a lukewarm reception and decided it was too expensive to hold on to, especially with many of them having spiders coming through.

There’s no more being made and not that many built. More recent reviewers such as the Stig are recognising what many owners see, it’s an incredible car. I remember many other cars where this happened, including the McLaren F1, the 964 RS etc. Not well received initially but come good precisely because they didn’t sell so well initially but were cars that ended up being viewed positively in future years when they were better understood. The SF90 is not an easy car to understand and Ferrari have been ahead of everyone else. Put it this way, at similar or just a bit higher price to a Pista, there’s no competition (we have both so do have some idea).

For clarity, I’m not suggesting this is going to be as proportionately successful as those cars but hybrid issues per se have little to do with it. Only demand and supply. When the initial glut has washed through and people realise in future years what a good car it is, it will be ok IMO.

For some reason, far too much nonsense surrounds this car. It’s a bargain at current prices, saving a big market correction (which I’m looking out for but don’t really think will come).

 

Hmm, sounds like driver. I followed a non-AF SF90 sound Silverstone last year in our 991 GT2 RS (now sold). Very closely matched and we did quite a few laps. Subsequently discovered our SF90 (when it arrived) to have much more pace than 2RS but 2RS brakes a bit better because of weight and downforce.

 

Sorry, my post 227 was in response to the discussion about current market values of SF90 a couple of pages ago (I realise I didn’t make that clear)

 

I disagree with this argument, because most traditional customers don't want a hybrid. This is not from me, but from feedback from the factory.
The new clientele accepts it, but is very talkative and not very committed to the Ferrari passion, this forum not being representative of the mass, as you know.
To qualify this new clientele, it seems that the purchase history is recent and begins at the 488 period at the latest, directly at SF 90...
There is a clear disconnect between the longtime D ICE and NA buyer and this new clientele. I objectively think that differences and expectations are important, and that they have nothing to share with each other.

 

That is similar to the Porsche TTS, its the traction and straight line speed but in the right hands a rear wheel drive car that is lighter will be more optimal - especially one that has less weight. Precisely why race cars are most often set up in that manner.

You have both so perhaps best of both worlds. I chose the Mac over the SF and dont have any desire for the SF. I did however order a 296GTS.

 

The 296 is the ideal car for Ferrari devotees who must own the brand who rarely drive their cars and when they do it is on city roads . The car is highly objectively competent, attractive, refined, compliant and comfortable. It is the quintessential expression of a GT car. For those who expect an immersive, compelling and engaging driving experience which will leave you breathless and invigorated, look elsewhere.

I have not experienced the SF90, but if it is true that many prefer the driving dynamics of the 296, that would be a serious negative indictment of the SF90.

 

Should add, the VS will knock a chunk out of that 1,09.99

yes a complete bargain, in the summer toyed with selling mine but kept on thinking what I could replace it with for same performance and relative rarity and could only come up with 918 Spyder, that I had already owned, but that’s double the cost plus.. so so misunderstandings about this car from people who have never driven an AF car on Road & Track.. can’t wait for the VS version.

 

Wasn’t there, but for sure the driver and a non AF car.. btw I love the 765 LT but it’s not quicker than an AF SF90 on track, only anglesey circuit would give it a chance, was surprised by the times at Anglesey for both posted earlier in this thread..

 

one point i would like to ad for the sf90. I know 3 people selling there Sf90 here in switzerland for following reason (onwer age 60-75year, all very wealthy long time ferrari client)

for one the car is just to powefull to handle
for the other 2, they cant handle the new interface, if you hava already problems for charging the car at home, what should you do with all those touch buttons..

I see the later point as a problem for quit a lot people on an older age. the sf90/296 are relativ complex with there digital interfaces, vs 812/f8tributo etc. If you like tech it is perfect to live with, but if you are not so into the newest tech, it could be to much of it

 

People over 60 who are very wealthy and who have built multi million- billion $ businesses, not only are incapable of operating a computer, they are ignorant of controlling the speed of a fast car.

 

The only SF90 owners I know are long-time Ferrari buyers. N/A and turbo. I’m sure there must be others in the category you suggest but I don’t know any (makes a very expensive first or early Ferrari purchase though).

In my career in the motor industry I remember a brand I worked with. I asked the dealers of this brand how we could help them. They unanimously said “we need younger customers because the brand sells to older people and they will die off”. So we tried finding young customers and it failed spectacularly. This brand appealed to older people for good product reasons. We eventually made it successful by realising that its strength was in selling to old people because of the product and that when existing customers got too old to buy a car, new people will become old enough to want this product.

Same with Ferrari. Ferrari will always be an exclusive brand aimed at making sexy looking cars that go fast well. The tech might change, but when older customers grow tired or too old, there will come younger customers who also want to go fast in a sexy looking car and don’t really remember too much about noisy, smelly, dirty and unreliable combustion cars. And by the way, other brands need Ferrari, who is the comfortable market leader, to be successful in plotting this path. McLaren for example don’t have the capacity to be a front-runner on this issue. In the same way as McLaren’s arrival has been positive competition for Ferrari, Ferrari will now repay the favour in shaping what the future for high performance sports cars will be like.

The only way Ferrari dies (other than a business mistake) is if you believe there won’t be people who want to drive a well-developed sports car that looks good in the future. I personally don’t see that. Which technology fulfils that dream is only really a hygiene factor.

There will also be a crossover group. Those new-style (EV or whatever) sports car drivers who become fanatics or want to drive what their dads drove them in when they were kids and that will ensure our 458s retain value. SF90 and 296 will be included in that equation in some way.

The motor industry is littered with failures that happened because companies didn’t move with the times and kept building what they had always built. Wanting Ferrari to do the same most likely hastens their demise. Whether they can translate their success into a new world where other competitors want their place - Rimac, Tesla, various Chinese - is another question.

 

Well there’s a generalisation. I know many people in that category who prove your comment to be, well, a bit silly. No doubt the interface is a challenge for some but not everyone. As for not being able to drive, do you really think that? I know many who would drive much quicker than their children.

 

Since sarcasm in print is often misinterpreted, my post is Unequivocally sarcastic. I was mocking the post above mine.

 

This is where I agree and also disagree - Agreed old vs young is not relevant as younger people become older. However if you look at the younger people these days they have plenty choice (McLaren, Lambo, Porsche, Pagani, Koen.. etc). In the "old days" it was Ferrari and only Ferrari. Some might like Ferrari getting into clothing, SUV's etc, some might not. McLaren, Lambo and now Porsche have heavily lifted their game and are true competitors in most categories to Ferrari (just look at Lambo under Winkelmann). I for one see a lot younger buyers in other brands not Ferrari IMO.

 

Xskier’s comment that the SF90 sales are due to elderly owners being confused by the complexity of the car and it is too fast for them to control, is patently absurd.

 

I'd say that there are many for sale because people see the bottom dropping out and want to cash in before it's too late.

The idea that you can order a car drive it for a bit make some money then get the latest thing is quite appealing to many which has caused a flood of really nice cars in the market.

 

I've always written it, and I still think it, I think Ferrari won't survive electrification.
Why, because it is undergoing a regression that has no evolution except the word in terms of political choice. Basically, that is to say the emotion and the pleasure of the senses, it is a huge regression, because beyond the technical aspects as noble as a Swatch, there is no involvement of the driver, as soon as you remove the sound, the gearbox and the pleasure of having mechanics worthy of goldsmithing.
Today, Ferrari still offers an identity V 12 that the others do not offer. It embodies the power of the brand at all levels.
When you replace it with batteries, you offer what everyone else offers, in addition to abandoning nobility and mechanical goldsmithery for household appliances. We can always lie to each other by telling ourselves that we are buying exceptional, but between four eyes, we know very well that this will not be the case....
Not to mention that most customers buy a Ferrari to make vroom vroom (I'm not talking about our minority).
And in this case, no more vroom vroom...nothing.
We can always make an artificial V 12 sound, but hey... the artificial at this price has no nobility, no positive image to claim, so therefore no future.
So, finding 13,000 customers a year to buy this things at an indescent price to cover the investment and the maximum margin, I think it's impossible and that once the effect of discovery and novelty has passed, it will collapse. brutally like a house of cards. That's why I use the Lehman brothers metaphor...

 

A lot of people feel this way, the question is whether or not Ferrari will be able to backfill with new customers. If you consider what they are doing with "fashion", the direction is questionable. I hope they dont stray too far away but I do understand the need to have the latest tech. However with just batteries that emotion that everyone talks about is gone, it will become an appliance and common place. I might be in the minority but I dont think it will come to this, I bet they will have electric, hybrid and something else (ICE or alternative fuel). Time will tell but in the meantime I am buying cars that appeal to me just in case I am wrong.

 

The Ferristas, those who buy the brand for status, prestige and because “A Ferrari is a Ferrari” will continue to purchase the cars. The genuine car enthusiasts, who are passionate about owning and driving these cars, will be resistant to purchase a Ferrari that offers driving dynamics that is generic, lacking the excitement and involvement that is endemic to a super car.

 

I always wanted to chat with someone who owned both the SF90 and the 918, I can not have a 918 where I am due to it being LHD only and the reason I bought the SF90 is because I thought it’s the closest I could get to one of my most desirable cars the 918.

Could you be kind enough and take few minutes to tell me how the two compare? TIA

 

when all things are equal (propulsion mode) it will come down to coach-building, artistry, exclusivity, panache, finding 13000 buyers for anything in such a vast pool of customers who want objects just for pure vanity alone, for argument’s sake, is a simple walk in the park, if you think otherwise your ability to conceptualise it is far exceeded by your inability of comprehending the reality of the real world out there.

Often unfortunately most people only envisage and live within their own world, they can not have the concept of what can happen past the boundaries of their own limitations, that’s why you have those who do and those who b**ch. Luxury brands will be ok in particular those who adapt and embrace the future.

BTW even though you are a massive negatron I am not having a go at you because I don’t know you from a bar of soap I am speaking generally.

 

"Move with the times", hardly, top-down government regulation is not wanted, period.

Rimac, a joke, what is their total production ever? Essentially nothing, and current expected, stated production is 50 cars a year...a complete joke, does not deserve any mention other than they are being preyed upon by VW/others.

Chinese, a dictator run economy, untrustable by any measure, again, not worthy of any mention.

 

When a non-client watch company can sell 5,000 at an average price of $190,000 it opens one’s eyes to the depth of the luxury industry.

Most of our luxury clients are doing very well and subjectively I think overall it’s exactly getting easier to sell luxury products. For brands with solid understanding of their clientele in China, Europe and US - it is very close to a walk in the park




Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

What is absurd. For those 2 gentleman the car is to complicated. Would you like them to tell it is absurd that they cant get allong with the interface and there for selling the car..