Nice ride, so this may cause considerable offence... Stanceworks 308 GTBi (Honda K24 Swap)

i watched the build from day 1 and love how it came out. congrats to stanceworks. cant wait to see how it drives when done.

 

There is no doubt that the craftsmanship and build quality of the MaT builds are miles better than an original Michelotto car and that they are truly outstanding pieces. That said they are modern copies while Michelotto cars represent a time and place in history. Regardless of the build quality or 'authenticity' all of these replica cars hold zero value to me (regardless of what they sell for). My biggest disappointment in seeing these cars is that the amazing skills it took to make them could have been better directed to making something unique like Mike did with his GTB (or rather GTK)

 

Most agree that once that Ferrari engine is removed, it is something else….somethin. Lots of chevy and Ford engines replaced Ferrari v12s in the 60-70s. Were they faster? Sure. Why does that matter in these? A hopped up just about anything is faster. Those cars were all one step away from the crusher without the v12 though. Thankfully most were saved. Having that engine was so important that the factory will even make you a new engine and stamp a new serial number.

Props to your handwork as it is commendable in getting it in there and making it all come together. Makela will absolutely send you a screenshot of the weight if you ask. Their English is excellent too if you want to give them a shout.

 

There’s a massive disconnect between ‘60s V12 Ferraris and 308 GTBis, bud. This is a silly argument.
As is suggesting the car is “something else.”
I tell ya what, if you can afford it, you can buy my car and change the title to whatever you want

 

Will there be a cost episode? That would be very interesting.

 

There seems to be the unfounded notion out there that as soon as you remove the engine from a Ferrari it ceases to be a Ferrari and that is just not the case. It certainly ceases to be original and correct but it becomes a hot rod as it is modified from its original state. Whether or not a Ferrari engine is used a motor swap makes for a major disjoin from what the car was originally. A few weeks ago I was at the SEMA show in Vegas. There I saw a Porsche 911 with a Subaru engine (everyone called it a Porsche), even an RX7 with a V12 Mercedes motor in it which again everyone called an RX7. Heck there was even this guy who put a Honda motor in a 308 and everyone around was calling it a Ferrari

 

You’ll find out what it’s worth when you go to sell it.

 

I’ve already turned down offers, I know what it’s worth.

 

Congratulations M. Burroughs!! Wonderfull to witness a Man finishing what he started with such personal creativity & craftsmanship.

Artfully executed, well documented.

Thank you for inspiring my 17yr old Son a bit more, he is a fan of Ferrari and Honda! also just about anything with a combustion engine & manual shift.

Built not bought commands respect.

It takes all kinds to make a world.

 

do people still get worked up over all the 911 restomod builders like singer and guntherwerks ruining the purity of porsches? i bet people have gotten used to those and dont complain so much anymore. ferrari is not as common so still gets people angry.

i also wonder if lambo restomods would be more acceptable than ferrari ones? i would say so but not sure why since lambo more rare than ferrari. personally, i have no qualms about it esp if its just a series production car like 308.

but mike mightve been better off just making his own chassis from scratch and fit body to that. 308 chassis looks like hunk junk anyway so why bother save it?

 

The effort, attention to detail, and end result are all pretty amazing.

I do get the purist argument that some would have preferred to see the donor car in not as nice a condition as the one that was chosen, but it seems unreasonable to admonish him with the charge that his car is no longer a Ferrari. It's not like it was a crappy kit/mod job, this was a pretty nice effort with attention to the fit and finish. I'm looking forward to the performance videos further on down the line. Like @95spiderman was saying, a Singer Porsche is still considered a Porsche, this seems to be StanceWorks Ferrari. I wonder if Mike might have a stab at a 348 next?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Does a Singer use a turbocharged Honda inline 4? Must have missed that change [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Williams 6 cyl is not Porsche either

 

The 'Williams 6' is on a 911 block. Not as complicated as you think as it is just a 4v head that Williams developed for the 911 block. Absolutely a well-engineering thing of beauty built by professional engineers. You can't compare this 308 to a Singer. Compare this 308 thing to the Delorean crowd who shove a Chevy 90 degree V6 in the back, or the Lotus Esprit's with Chevy V8s.

 

Well I still think this was a cool choice for the build. However I'm not fan of turbos. so maybe a v8 based on 4 cyl bike engines would have been even cooler.

 

Your bias couldn’t be more apparent.

Last I checked, it was Honda engines winning F1 championships, not Williams. The K series cylinder head is one of the best production cylinder heads ever made. There’s a reason these engines can make 400bhp from 2.4L on pump gas, with daily driver-reliability. And at a fraction of the cost of any Porsche engine, Williams or otherwise.

 

I’ve been considering it. It’s a weird topic to cover, that’s for sure.

 

And what would you roughly say the HP to LBS ratio is?

 

I know it's tough here, I subscribed once, and once only, people pay for the narcissism and inflated ego's here

 

for actual track use I’m aiming for about 500hp. But for fun, we will hit 1000whp. It’d be neat to shed a little more weight for a 1:1 ratio hp/kg.

 

What are you on about. That engine is entirely Honda. Williams designed a cylinder head on an otherwise entirely Porsche 964 engine. Williams engineering do stuff like this often and at great expense, we just don't hear about it. And last I checked, Williams racked up far more world championships (9 and 114 wins) than Honda, who took close to a decade developing their F1 power unit which was total garbage until Red Bull engineering got involved. Honda simply refuse to do any custom work, almost always have unless it directly benefits Honda. When they were approached about the Mclaren F1 and making a V12 engine, they flat turned down Gordon Murray, hence the BMW V12.

The big issue with super custom cars though is they just live in an incredibly limited market thereafter. I often love them and respect the work they took, but like most American muscle stuff and supper modded German and Asian stuff, the market is tiny.

Had you designed a different head for a 308 on a 308 block then this would be an entirely different conversation. As they say though, you do you. Have fun with it. I am glad it has brought attention to your business as you are crafty and have talent in making things work. Cheers to that

 

My point is that your biases against Honda cloud your judgment. But that’s your loss, not mine.

 

I'll say this again, it isn't about what Burroughs did to HIS 308 because it is his to do with as he wants. The upset is his attitude, he just can't get through an episode without making ignorant remarks about the original design - a production street car complying with all existing rules and regulations for the worldwide market. He thinks he's a smarter engineer than anyone at Ferrari but he's no engineer. Nothing in this project has been tested nor qualified and much of what is being espoused is garnered from his adoring youtube fanbase, a toxic ego-boosting environment that doesn't accept any criticism, constructive nor otherwise. It remains to be seen how this vehicle will perform if we will ever see that at all.

My advice - wear a helmet and a good race suit and stay on the track please don't drive this thing on the street. I don't care if you can get a North Carolina tag it doesn't belong on public roads. I learned to weld in college, burned up a lot of school metal in the process. The place to learn how to do that is not on a machine you intend to drive on the road at high speed.

Think of the children.

 

And tell me, what “ignorant remarks” have I made about the original design with respect to engineering?
You guys get so damn up tight hearing your cars are heavy or that the GTBi is underpowered, and both are fact.

Your biases are just as apparent, being critical of my fab work and telling me to stay off the road as an ad hominem attack at me because you don’t like what I have to say about a car you lust for.

Learn that people can disagree with you. Learn that you can love something dearly even if it isn’t perfect, such as the 308. You’ll be happier.

 

I find mike to be a passionate car guy (like the rest of us here) who brings value to our favorite forum. Lets not chase him away. And mike, learn to use the ignore feature of the site and dont engage in back and forth arguments.