My 308 Vs a 360 or a 430

It's a 1981 308 GTSi. Even though I should not be comparing it to a modern car, every time I drive my Lotus Evora, I start wondering if I would have a better driving experience if I had a 360 or a 430. Thoughts?
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What don't you like about driving your 308?

 

NO

 

It's period correct handling charcteristics Definitely not it's fault. I love the car but in the corner of my mind, I always want a more modern Ferrari purely from a handling point of view.

 

Each model will be better than its predecessor from a ‘technical’ perspective - but that doesn’t make it more fun to drive an own

I’ve just flipped a 718 GT4 (great car), because overall I get more pleasure out of driving my ‘76 308 at normal speeds on congested roads, and fiddling with it and getting to know it. In a perfect world I’d keep both, but that was the trade off I made.

 

Install some larger sway bars and more modern 17" wheels/tires with some extra tread width and two way adjustable coil over shocks.

That will take care of most of the handling part fairly cheaply.

if you want to spend some coin, put a 360 crank and liners on your motor, with larger cams.

That will take care of a lot of the power differential, at least to 7K RPM.

I have done all of the above. The car isn't any slouch, anymore.

I also have wide open, uncongested roads to drive it on.

Doug

 

If you like the styling... You can fix everything else.

 

You need a Boxer. Beefier suspension and loads of power and torque! In period styling, looks and driving experience.

 

I have an 89 328 GTS, I would not trade it for any other car, other than an F40 if that were possible. I have 17 s Compomotives with 255 45 17s in the rear on 9 inch wides, with 245 45 17 s on 8 inch wides in the front. My car handles very good, the driving experience is second to none, so for me, there is no substitute. Driving fast in a car in a straight line is boring, if I want to go fast, I can get on the V4 S, like I did today, and go from 90 MPH to 155 MPH in about 4 seconds, so theres that. Keep the 308, drive it in the mountains and canyons, and you will forget about the car being down on power. You can take the advice on the tires and wheels, and your cars handling will come up to almost modern day standards. I saw a 308 today on the 405 freeway, in the looks dept , the 360 is not even in the same solar system. My Karts are from about 40 to 50 HP 125 / 175 and I would bet the fun factor can only be matched by a Formula 1 or 2 car, and of course the Le Mans prototype machines. More power does not equal more fun.That 360 is a piece of crap. Your 308 will be around long after the 360 starts to come unglued. The 430, better car, but with a 6 speed, they are way over priced and not worth the money , keep the 308 and buy a Porsche 911 with the 7 speed manual gear box, good looks , reliability, fun, and the interior does not come apart during the life of the car. I also like the 355s , but they are also over priced when it comes to a manual gearbox, and they too are not built nearly as good as the 308 / 328 . My 89 has 105,000 miles, and not one major mechanical failure and the interior still smells the same after my 23 years of ownership, how many other Ferraris can you say that about ?


Big G

 

I think you need to define "better driving experience." What do you value in your driving experience that would push something towards "better"?

For my play car I want something very different from my daily driver. A low, loud, small, manual transmission, three-pedal, manual steering car with nearly adequate air conditioning and lots of switches a gauges is indeed the opposite of my daily. No one would say the 308 is a better car, and it really isn't. But I value all of those things in my play car.

 

I think I found the best source for these mods

https://www.nicksforzaferrari.net/ferrari-308-328-mondial-a-arm-bushings.html

https://www.nicksforzaferrari.net/nff-custom-coil-overs.html

https://www.nicksforzaferrari.net/nff-35--4-liter-ferrari-engines.html

 

Thanks for your insight! I agree on the price versus value aspect of the other cars. I've been spoiled by my MV Agusta F4 in the acceleration department as well So, everything else feels relatively slow. I like the 288 GTO style wheels better even though I was looking at getting superformance wheels. I am partial to my Lotus Evora so when it's time, I'll probably get the Emira.

https://www.nicksforzaferrari.net/288-gto-style-wheels.html

 

My main gripe with the 308 is that the steering feel is a bit vague for my liking. It could very well be due to the TRX tires that I have on the car. So if I try a new set of wheels with more modern tires, I may change my mind. That and two way adjustable coilovers may be just what I need to enjoy my 308 better.

Thank you for all for the wonderful feedback.

 

This is one of my favorite pictures of the 308 from last fall. The sharp looks are timeless!
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Depends on what you're looking for. Vintage means that it is going to require more effort and skill to drive the machine with finesse and grace and that can result in greater satisfaction if that is your mindset or frustration if it is not. The speed doesn't matter because you are not racing anyone, it's the essence of he experience that matters. If you're not feeling that then perhaps you would find it in a more modern car but honestly, none of us can answer that question for you.

 

I think the 308 has great steering feel. Humm… Something might be out of whack. To see if its the tires, try raising their pressure and see if it removes the vagueness (careful with understeer and heat).

 

I have mentioned this previously when threads.It comes up a lot .I have had all sorts of “ sports “ cars past 30 yrs .Without listing I bought a 911 at the age of 25 and went from there , in the mid 90 s a 968 club sport new as well .+ many more porches BMW s Merc , Alfas even a Renault sport spyder …..just to kinda qualify myself for what I am about to say .
These cars were 2 nd or 3 rd alongside the family Range Rovers .
I dived into the F world late 90s with a Testarossa. Straight line great corners not so or indeed the brakes.Just too much rearwards weight and mass sitting behind you ,A nearly new 360 F1 early noughties.Why not Schumacher was cleaning up in the F1 GP world with his F1 box .The Aluminium honey comb super stiff chassis , the width ( handling ?) the revs up to 8 K rpm .What could possibly detract from going out every week end ( usually on my own ) and copying what I saw on TV watching Schumacher et al ?

Well the electrotwackery killed the “experience “ Sure quick car , sure flappy paddles , sure a host of nannies ….buttons to play with etc .I understand a 430 has even more and user friendly steering wheel buttons …..like you see on the telly the F1 boys playing with .
But I always felt I was just a passenger smothered in technology .Not really getting involved .Bit like a full orchestra with the conductor walking off and they just carry on playing great music or worse better music without him .Thats how I felt sat in a 360 driving on twisty roads with a few ounces of vigour .

Also due to U.K. legislatures measures ie speed cameras , fines , the grow anti social speed / driving like a Hooligan etc etc and dare I say it a growing social consciousness I lost my motivation to drive it .Had it 9 yrs btw it was no whim .= Sold it .

A few years later wanted something to play with , without the main dealer drama ( retired now more time ) .
Not bothered about ultimate 0-60 or max speed age mellows you etc .

Enter this .
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[ As you can see in the background a 987.2 ..2.9 boxster stick shift as well for the cabriolet experience and indeed handling ]

How ever the 208 , yes 170 Hp 2.0 L on skinny 195/70/14 s “ ballon “ tyres a fresh recently installed new rack and recent geo is a dream to drive ,
For more involvement than the Testarossa/ 360 F1 .

It talks to me , I hear the carbs sucking , I feel the front starting to neutralise then transition the car into a 4 wheel gentle slide on roundabouts ( in the U.K. / EU ) .I feel the mech linkage of the gears .I even feel the front nearside ( road camber change) wheel starting to m but not quite locking up when hard braking .

The Bertone wedge Gandini style thingy is of course subjective , but it’s coming of age now and folks hand gestures are thumbs up and complimentary waves .

Sure a modern ish Porsche Boxster ( arguably better handling than 911 s ) accomplishes everything better on paper , but the GT 4 is the most pleasurable involvement car hands down to any I have had .Lauda legacy ? ? Feels like it .

You can shove modern day electrotwackery where the sun doesn’t shine .

My 0.0 cents worth ^ .

 

I think the rack wears insidiously.You don’t notice it .
There are threads on rebuilding, it’s the bush furthest away from the steering wheel .A new rack ( or proper rebuild ) restored the greatness to the “ feel “ Appropriate geo set up after of course .

I Counterintuitively find running OEM skinny 195/70/14 s mean you end up driving a slow car fast as opposed to a fast car slow in terms of finding it handling limits .This is enhancement of the involvement.

I know a lot has been talked about ^^^ about so called suspension lowering , improving it with wider stickier rubber , but you are in effect further removing the involvement.This is because you are in theory if the mods work raising its limits .
Grotesquely artificially modding a 70 s bushed double wish bone car on ballon tyres , to keep up with 21 C cars stuffed with electrotwackery is in my view lessening the involvement.You could end up backwards.( no pun intended) .

 

Buy another one then!

 

You made a valid point. How do I check for steering play beyond normal limits? Lot of info on this thread but I need to confirm if my steering needs any fixes.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/slop-free-play-in-308-steering.118428/

 

You don't say how many miles/Kms are on your car.

My steering rack slowly got worn without me really noticing. I have had the car almost 40 years and put on almost 80K miles myself.

A new (rebuilt) rack really tightened things up. I also changed all the suspension bushings and other moving/wear suspension parts.

Doug

 

Larger tires/wheels:

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or even 18s.

Money wise just buying a newer model generally makes the most sense if you want a faster and in many ways better car. Pretty much everything was already broke or worn-out on my car when I got it so mentally it was pretty easy to justify "upgrades" or there is the "I don't care about money, I want a fast 308" which means you know and accept that the money is gone forever. Just something to keep in mind but I personally have dumped buckets of money and years of my life into a fast 308 so I'm not saying you shouldn't

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You can also use the QA1 shock with a special upper mounting eye from unobtainium supply so that you don’t have to modify the upper control arm. Check birdman308 site, I and many others here have gone that route and are very pleased with the results

 

i honestly enjoy driving my 328 more than my 458 (probably putting for sale soon).