I had a pre for sf and now a GTS…I actually prefer the sound of the GTS. Plus, hasn’t it been said multiple times that you can delete the gpf with after market exhaust with no warning lights? They do feel like different cars but seems like there are work around if the decision is being made in sound alone? Personally I love mine but get why people may prefer the SF or F12. Nice to have options!
Nope, only if you fool it with a OBD plug-in that removes codes so the ECU is unaware...definitely voids warranty (if discovered) https://tagmotorsports.com/novitec-tectronic-ferrari-812 This one is similar but specifically does not prevent GPF codes from passing through: https://capristoexhaust.com/product/obd-cel-delete/
I’ve been lucky to have had all three 812 variants pre-gpf SF/GTS/Comp…. All different bass/pitches ….. I’ve just sold the GTS and kept the SF as my daily and the Comp- i think I’ve picked the right 2 to keep
I don’t think that you could have gone wrong with either. Having stated this; The GTS offers something very different to the SF or Comp. You can go driving with the roof down. Perhaps the better pairing was the GTS and the Comp when you want more noise and emotion?? May the Horse be with you
Nope, only if you fool it with a OBD plug-in that removes codes so the ECU is unaware...definitely voids warranty (if discovered) thanks for clarifying….thought I read that but the good news is I am less than a year from the warranty ending so may be with it then. With that said, I think it sounds great as is.
Ok, but, in USA factory warranty for emissions is 8 years, 80,000 miles, whichever comes first (Federal Rule) Read the section: What is the federally mandated warranty for emission controls on my car? https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air It is a limited warranty: Specified major emission control components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever first occurs). The specified major emission control components only include the catalytic converters, the electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU), and the onboard emissions diagnostic (OBD) device or computer. It can be denied: The manufacturer can deny this warranty coverage if evidence shows that the emission component failure was caused by improper use or maintenance and not caused by a defect. And, for Ferrari, the extended warranty on engine components will not be available...should that matter
Very good point as usual. Anything that plugs into your OBDII port to modify operation essentially sends malicious commands into the vehicle network hoping to cause an effect. These are done by a range of small outfits that claim to be capable. Not a chance! If you had the tools and manpower to design, debug and fully test what you are doing then you'd have more capability than the OEMs who leave that to the tier 2 suppliers who'd laugh at you.
Warranty or not, they always find a way not to be responsible for the part that does not work so as not to pay... On the one hand, you have Porsche, which exchanges its 991 gt3 engines for free, and on the other, you have Ferrari, which makes the customer pay for gearbox design defects on 400k cars.
You are so right in what you are saying. I feel Ferrari is very cavalier with its customer base, but the cars continue to sell out year after year, I guess we are all drinking the KOOL-AID!!
The Ferrari Kool Aid has always been it’s magnificent engine and design. For the Porschephiles it’s been the engineering, With the advent of mileage, exhaust and sound regs- even the exotic cars are going to eventually plateau on the engine and engineering with little to differentiate the two. That leaves design- Ferrari wins there for the most part but is it worth $200-300K more than Porsche? Hmmm… gonna have to think hard about that. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
because electric cars essentially "level the playing field", what is the point of Ferrari or Porsche in an all electric world where every car essentially weighs 5000 pounds (Rimac is a little lighter but...), is design and marque worth any premium when the underlying battery/electric motor "tech" is essentially the same? and, because the underlying tech is easily duplicated (unlike combustion engines), anyone can design and build an "exotic" car, suspensions will not mean as much due to all that weight being moved about thus, Ferrari must continue to make the combustion engines to stand out from the ever increasing crowd of BEV car companies...otherwise their brand will eventually disappear or at best substantially reduced as it will not be anything special, except for their lack of skill in making BEV's and all things digital...
We understood it, and some at Ferrari too ! But the most influential think that by manufacturing batteries "made in Maranello" will be the equivalent of a V 12 " made in Maranello "... How can we reasonably think that we will be able to sell in 10 years 15,000 electric cars per year at 500,000 € with the heritage of the brand embodied by the ICE engine ??? It's totally impossible !!! When they see the waiting list of 167, they will understand their mistake...
I think the OEMs will get a clearer sense of market's enthusiasm towards EV sports cars when Porsche launches the EV Cayman/Boxster in a couple of years. I realize that segment is not comparable to any existing Ferrari models but it should provide a useful data point. We already know what the market thought of the 4 cylinder 718 and I personally expect a similarly cool reception however I'm admittedly influenced by my own negative bias towards EV's.
I maintain my bet and hope that electrification will not prosper. This "trend" does not take long to start falling. The SF90 is already indicative of rejection. Although it is not a full EV, it is highly electrified and complex, as it has 3 electric eng... batteries. And market reception has been poor. There are many, many, stranded in showrooms with 300 km, 500 km. Not to mention the ones I know are giving a myriad of problems. That's what the SF90 units have on average 1.5 years. Imagine these electronic salads in about 3-4 years. And more: selling production is one thing. They claim production has been sold for x years, that kind of talk. The truth lies in the number of customers who remain with the car. How much the car is desired by people, purists and non-purists. From the moment that the market starts to be flooded with SF90 with very little mileage, that the (un)success of the product is seen. Add that to the order list for the F167, which is sure to be a success. They will sell and not be left in dozens in showrooms. Management will have to redefine plans (if they are not already doing so).
I truly hope they think it through, because a battery pack assembled in Maranello (with individual battery cells made by a manufacturer(s) that Ferrari specifically will not name, but Rimac does not name their battery cell suppliers either...) means absolutely nothing, in fact, it could be considered a liability as Ferrari has zero skill in assembling battery packs, best to leave that to those who do...currently all their battery packs are outsourced, I believe, to SK Innovation https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190915000233 https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/sk-innovation-invest-1-bln-new-battery-factory-china-2021-09-01/ ...has battery production sites in the United States, Hungary, China and South Korea. Remember this from 2018: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ferrari-ev-will-sound-and-handle-like-a-proper-ferrari-says-marchionne-123537.html And then a reversal: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/04/24/ferrari-electric-ev-marchionne/ Ferrari was indicating in 2018 that in 2 years time they would have their first full EV, what nonsense was that, they cannot even create a new combustion car in 2 years, of course now all the banter is first full EV in 2025, but, not a single test mule yet...it is almost 2023... I strongly suspect they will have something to show in 2025 that they claim is a full EV but it will be a prop, with actual production, if ever, starting in 2028 or later...especially if their plan is to use this new set of factory buildings, which are still under construction, to 'hand make' battery packs and electric motors that make some sort of moaning sound to imitate an engine...sheesh, not sure how they think any of that is reasonable at all. # # # https://www.reuters.com/technology/ferrari-tells-investors-it-will-build-even-more-unique-electric-cars-2022-06-16 ...Vigna said Ferrari would develop its own electric motors, inverters and battery modules on a new assembly line at its plant in Maranello, Italy, while outsourcing non-core components.... OK, but then Vigna says this contrary statement ....To reduce investments, Ferrari will use suppliers for components or software that are not crucial, such as an operating system, Chief Executive Benedetto Vigna said. <...> To save money Ferrari will not develop an operating system for EVs. In contrast, other automakers, including Tesla (TSLA.O) and Mercedes (MBGn.DE), say proprietary operating systems to run cars, manage wireless upgrades and collect data on driver habits and preferences are crucial. "I will never build a Ferrari operating system, I would be foolish," Vigna told investors. "You have to focus on the areas where you can be the best." # # # So which is it? Foolishly develop something you have never done before (like battery modules and EV operating systems) or be foolish and do so (create battery modules)?? # # # Other reading that shows Ferrari's "battery module patent" should be rejected as it is just copying others... https://www.orovel.net/articles/ferrari-bi-battery ...The main innovation of this patent is to relocate a structural element of the vehicle on the Battery pack.... (Rimac does this, in fact, the Ferrari 'pack design' looks similar to Rimac) https://www.orovel.net/insights/the-rimac-nevera-battery # # # Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login and the Ferrari battery pack size is too small, they are depending on significant increases in battery cell charge density, otherwise that pack will be like 60kWh with a range of 150 miles
They never mention exactly how many will be made in that period (SF90), so it can be a variable number, meaningless since they do not divulge the details.
Well, neither do I, and some of us think so... When you see the extent of the work in progress, you say to yourself that the electrical process is really engaged, and as I have always said that the house of cards on which it is built will produce the expected effects...
Especially if Elkann is presuming Ferrari to go it alone and not at least borrow/share some of what Stellantis is developing in regards to EV driveline components...I presume the 'EV operating system' will be Stellantis UConnect
GTS - SF is better than Pista Spider - Pista. We own all except Pista Coupe. I really don’t get the negative comparisons for the GTS v SF. The noise is different but both outstanding, the handling is great on the GTS given it’s an open car. It has very limited scuttle shake and certainly better than the Pista Spider. It’s just a really great Ferrari, probably an even greater one in terms of hitting its mark than the very brilliant SF. The only reasonable objection for me is the reduced space in the cabin. We are selling ours and keeping SF, only because of other purchases and the fact we did TM on our SF and not on the GTS. If it was the other way around I would have no hesitation in keeping the GTS and selling the SF in advance of our Comp arriving.
Ferrari built its entire concept based on a few pillars, including 1) differentiation from other brands, which makes the soul of Ferrari, 2) the engine not seen as a mere power train, but a work of art , 3) a lot of engineering and aerodynamics innovation, but keeping its pillars. Therefore, Ferrari built a very strong brand, the strongest, for being different from the others. Nothing from its era is like a 250 GTO, or an F355, or a 458, etc. There is an invisible element, crafted from this traditional and avant-garde bias, added to a passionate design. And it never stopped innovating: just look at the technological difference between the generations up to the 458 (in the case of the V8). But always the heart (engine) and some factors were preserved in its tradition, to maintain the DNA of the brand. The innovations suited Ferrari, not the other way around. And so, over 70 years, Ferrari lovers, us purists, were born. And also buyers who, even if they weren't purists, looked for Ferraris because they were something different, exotic. The problem is that Ferrari, from 2015, started to change in an exaggerated way. Ferrari started following trends, rather than dictating trends. Inserted turbo in most models (which affected the classic symphony), started using less clean designs, created SUV, hybrids, huge and unnecessary digital panels, is developing electrics, is extinguishing the V8, is planning to extinguish the V12. That is, it is quickly giving up its characteristics, to establish itself in the name, in the logo. There's a huge difference between innovating solidly, and following all the trends and abandoning the roots. The current management started to ignore the purists and the public that buys Ferrari because it is different and exotic. They started to focus on the public that likes technology (in the digital sense of the word) and numbers. But this public is not faithful: when the 1100 hp McLaren with 20-inch digital dash comes out, they will board, and abandon the "slow" 1000 hp Ferrari with the tiny 10-inch dash. And then the plan collapses... When I see someone call us purist "dinosaurs" (as I've seen around here on FChat), it seems like those rebellious teenagers who live in comfort and wealth and say that their parents or grandparents are outdated and stupid, and forget that these parents and grandparents built with wisdom all the patrimony that these teenagers enjoy today.
Well said, and I would like to contribute 'who' at Ferrari thought this was a good idea? Ferrari Suing Charity for Control of "Purosangue" Name Isn't a Great Look The optics aren't great as Ferrari fights for the name of its future SUV. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a30750318/ferrari-purosangue-name-lawsuit/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/ferrari-suing-charity-purosangue-suv-name/ Ferrari's lawsuit goes to court early in March (2020), and it's expected that in it the automaker will argue that the Purosangue Foundation isn't well known enough to have properly benefited from the name and therefore shouldn't be allowed exclusive rights to it. That carries an air of arrogance and condescension, no?
I believe they design and assemble their battery pack in F1 and did the same with the LaFerrari and the SF90 Stradale.
https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190915000233 SK Innovation Co. of South Korea has been picked to supply a battery pack for Ferrari's first plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, industry sources said Sunday. After two years of tests of various products, the Italian luxury sports carmaker has chosen SK Innovation as the supplier of the lithium-ion battery pack for its SF90 Stradale model, according to the sources. Ferrari outsourced battery packs for production cars.. for the KERS system...hand made, very limited needs/production: Ferrari F1 KERS hybrid supplier: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1311-kers-hybrid-electric-technologies/ ...Magneti Marelli, for example, the company that developed Ferrari’s F1 system.... LaFerrari battery hybrid system supplier: https://www.magnetimarelli.com/press_room/news/magneti-marelli-supplies-electric-engines-laferrari-maranello%E2%80%99s-first-hybrid-car https://www.just-auto.com/news/italy-hybrid-technology-secrets-of-laferrari-revealed/ # # # https://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1-kers-system-mclaren/ # # # http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2009/06/ ... The HY had a customer spec Magneti Marelli KERS system based on the same KERS system currently supplied to the Ferrari and Renault Formula One teams. It featured a 60 kilowatt (80 horsepower) gear-driven electric motor in place of a conventional starter motor, 600 lithium-ion battery cells and a power inverter behind the front left wing to control the flow of energy between the batteries and the electric motor.... # # # Then there is this: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-laferrari-unveiled-at-geneva-195229671.html https://cartype.com/pages/6228/ferrari_laferrari__2013 ...The hybrid system is composed of two electric motors developed in collaboration with Magneti Marelli – one powering the driven wheels and the second the ancillaries – and a battery pack attached to the floor of the chassis consisting of cells that are assembled in the Scuderia Ferrari department where the KERS for the F138 is also made. The Scuderia’s expertise allowed considerable savings in weight and size of the individual components and the batteries weigh just 60 kg while providing the highest energy density possible for this kind of application...
