If Masi applied the rules correctly there was never any need for Mercedes to pit! Very simple Masi screwed up and changed the race outcome benefitting Max. Otherwise Mercedes/Hamilton win the race under the safety car time/procedure. Manipulating the ending of the race was a farce and a massive black eye for F1!
In all logic, there was no need for Mercedes to pit Hamilton. There was not enough laps left to finish the race under a gree flag, had the safety car procedure been followed. Masi manipulated the procedure to end the race under green, Period. Why do you think Masi lost his job? Because all through the season, he constantly ignored the rules.
And again a thread in the F1 forum turns into an Infinite loop From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In computer programming, an infinite loop (or endless loop)[1][2] is a sequence of instructions that, as written, will continue endlessly, unless an external intervention occurs ("pull the plug").
Seems people are really struggling with maths here. 5 laps from the end SC board was thrown up. Average SC laps at Abu Dhabi up to that point is 2.6 (2.75 for crashes only, 2.6 if you count the car recovery). 2 full racing laps left if average was met. It made sense to pit. However, Toto successfully manipulated Masi earlier in the race to not have a full SC. He figured that he could again manipulate Masi to keep the SC going since they didn't pit Ham this time. Didn't work. Merc ****ed up not pitting Lewis. Much easier to point the finger elsewhere with a convenient excuse than admitting fault. And the fanboys eat it up.
1, fia changed the rules and gave them 3 extra races, the rear wing was well known before hand and it was only changed after 8 teams complained it broke the rules, fia eventually agreed, changed the wording and allowed Redbull to run it for 3 more races still. remind us what happened to Mercs suspected illegal rear wing? new rules instantly, rear wing confiscated, Rear wing was still FOUND LEGAL. 2. agreed, as a fan though, No race happned... 3, brake checking, from karting all the way to f2, is an instant dq. i belive f1 is the only motor sport to officially not dq brake checking. Dont know what lols and diluting things has to do with my comment, did you mean delusions? FIA said the race should have finished behind the safety car had the rules been followed and the correct restart procedure had been upheld. you know this. So pitting would have been the wrong call and Max would have stayed out, because Redbull wouldnt have manipulated the race director into breaking the rules. Toto asking for a vsc and not a full safety car was not againts the rules.
That's the crux of the matter. But if you said that, you are a fanboy. Regardless of who won or lost, I am more incensed that a race director can determine the outcome of a race by ignoring the established prodecures. Rules are rules, and should be observed, and it's always shocking, when an official blatantly flouts them. I think the FIA agrees with that, hence Masi's dismissal.
You believe what you want. The guy left a trail of blunders behind him. Being race director was obviously above his competence. The FIA had no alternative but to get rid of him.
Guys, we've been over this a thousand times. At the moment when pit decisions needed to be made in Abu Dhabi 2021 .... several laps before Masi made the call ... long before the final lap ... the FULL expectation by ALL teams was that the race would finish under GREEN. Two reasons, explained ad nauseam: FIRST, the number of laps remaining in the race, at the moment the pit decisions needed to be made, was one or two laps MORE than the historic average safety car interval at Abu Dhabi. SECOND, there was a pre-race agreement by ALL teams (ultimately recognized by the FIA) that the race would end under green if it was at all possible and SAFE to do so. Mercedes made a huge blunder, by failing to pit Hamilton, knowing full well the race would end under green (long before Masi's call). Listen to the radio ... even Hamilton knew it was a huge blunder, LONG before any decisions were made by the race director to SAFELY fulfill the teams' agreement.
Many seem to be also struggling with the way time progresses The argument now seems to be ... Mercedes didn't need to pit Hamilton, because several laps later Masi would make a call that would be controversial Think about that one for a moment
If the rules was followed, and the race finished under the safety car as the FIA said it should have, then pitting and losing first would have been a mistake, as no green flag should have happened according to the rules.. so no, merc didnt make a mistake, Masi did, as can be read in the fias report. You cant preempt a mistake from the race director unless your team are the ones pulling his strings and forcing said mistake.
Yeah cause planning for some one elses mistake is the aim of the game, not planning for the rules. If they was followed they would look like mugs pitting for a safety car finish................. Only for Redbull fans
The teams' agreement couldn't over-rule the Safety Car Prodecure in any way, because nobody can predict if and when a safety car would be needed, nor in which circumstances, or how long for, nor how close to the end of the race. The proviso If it was at all possible is of the utmost important here. Nobody called for the rules to be ignored prior to the race. Therefore the so-called agreement wasn't binding in any way. Teams don't make rules on the hoof before a race. Mercedes assumed correctly that there was not enough laps left to finish under green, which was a fair assumption, if the rules were respected. Therefore pitting Hamilton wasn't necessary, since the race would be ending behind the safety car. Masi took it upon himself to speed up the process by allowing some cars to unlap themselves, but not others, then gave a restart signal before the process was finished. He insisted in the race ending under green even it he had to flout the rules to do so. That's what was held against him. It doesn't matter if he was influenced or not; a man in his position should be able to resist pressure. But that's not altogether surprising from a man who, after much delays, calls 2 laps under a safety car in qualifs order a RACE !
Let's try this one more time ... You are an F1 Team Principal. You know the PAST, but you don't know the FUTURE (if you're still struggling with that one, i can't help you). Car crashes, and safety car is deployed. AT THAT MOMENT, you have to make a decision to pit, or not. Based on this data from the PAST: - Historic average safety car interval at this track is TWO LAPS LESS than the number of laps remaining in THIS race - Agreement by ALL teams to finish under green, if it is SAFE to do so YOU have a decision to make ... quick! As Team Principal, do you expect the race to end under green, or end under yellow? Masi isn't even in the picture yet! You can't wait for the end of the race, and jump in your way-back machine (as others are suggesting). You can't "not decide" because the future is uncertain. AT THAT MOMENT, based on the info you have (above) ... do you expect the race to end under green, or under yellow? (If you're still struggling with this, as a Hamilton fan, just listen to Hamilton's radio ... again, LONG before any decisions were made by Masi)
He was fired for good reason. OTHER TEAM's who CARS COULD NOT UNLAP were DENIED their competitive chance. Wheatley at RedBull happily drove this scenario to the idiot Masi. Masi ignored HIS OWN CLARIFICATION that is on record from 2020. He updated the safety car rules after that race LOL - He is a complete BUFFOON. Good luck in Karting down under Masi. I hope he can handle the stress LOL! One can see the clear difference this year vs last years total needless unending lobbying that MASI ALLOWED. Liberty and the FIA allowed it as no one including the other BUFFOON Todt did nothing. We'd like F1 to be somewhat organized/respectable and accountable. It took this TOTAL FARCE for something along that line of thinking to be put in place. Im actually sorry Mercedes in their rights, did not take this to court so the full idiocy could be examined. They speak of 'transparency' and yet we really have very very little. They ask fans to pay pay pay pay pay pay pay pay pay pay.......and for what.
I'd like to interrupt this thread to wish you all a very Happy New Year! Here's to 2023, the year of the Tifosi!
They made the correct choice, up untill the few corners of the 57 th lap LH was champion, but then Masi broke safety procedure, and restart rules to rush a green light final lap. Its in the fia's report. As a sports person, you expect the officials to follow the rules, with that in mind, they didnt fail to pit, they made the correct choice, but was undone by the race director manipulating the final lap. That is a fact btw, an FIA official fact, not an opinion.
It is an overs implication of the facts, deliberately. Hamilton had a huge lead in the race, he was easily going to win it, but a crash happened and a SC car came out which erased that lead. This isn't uncommon. It's happened many many times before and will again. So this irrelevant to the outcome of the race. There was 5 laps to move the crashed car 100 ft down the road. That is plenty of time to clean up, unlap the cars, and get the race going for 1 green flag lap. Mercedes chose not to pit, because they knew Red Bull would stay out and inherit the lead. Obviously if the race finished under a SC, then Max wins for sure. Instead they opted to play it safe in the event the race finished under SC, or remain in the lead if it goes green. I don't even blame their decision. It still might have been the right call, because had they pitted for fresh tires, they still might have lost the race. The big conspiracy is why the call to not allow lapped cars to unlap themselves was made. It is standard procedure for that to happen. Even Alonso mentioned it during the race (though he might be biased). But nobody from the Lewis side wants to talk about how that decision was extremely strange and would have all but guaranteed the championship for him. Also it's odd to me that the Lewis fans wanted any decision to be made that would have protected Lewis without him having to actually race for it. You want to talk about biased outlook. In the end, yes Max had fresh soft tires vs Lewis' old hard tires. Huge advantage, and we know how they got there. But, Lewis was still leading the race! He did a poor job defending. His more powerful Mercedes engine gave him a run on 2 straights and he was unable to get a pass done.
The FIA implemented a date where they changed how they measured the flex of the rear wing. Up to that point Red Bull continued to use their flexy wing and Mercedes developed their own flexy wing as well. Once the new tests were in place, Red Bull and Mercedes (and anyone else) had stiffer rear wings. I actually agree with the new testing procedures because Red Bull did have very flexible rear wing. It wasn't illegal as they exploited a loophole. My issue is why the FIA choose to change the test procedures mid season, after Mercedes complained. FIA allowed Mercedes to run the DAS system the entire year before closing that loophole. Yet they changed the rules twice which directly impacted Red Bull TWICE mid season. The rear wing as we talked about, and the pitstop procedures that they claim is for safety, yet there had been zero incidents caused by automated releases. And as I mentioned, Red Bull brought up the flexy front wings, and FIA did nothing at all. It's almost laughable to consider Max's actions as brake checking. He slowed down gradually to force Lewis to pass. This has been done in the past because of the DRS advantage, and it's been done by Lewis himself. Yet Lewis CHOSE not move to the side and/or pass. Instead he CHOSE to keep his front wing tucked behind Max regardless of the speed. Any driver (even terrible ones) can move past a slowing car. Lewis slowing down proved he was aware of what Max was doing, and instead of moving out of the way and going by, his crashed into the back of Max. This wasn't a 300 kph slam on the brakes 200 meters too soon and caught Lewis off guard situation. In 2012 a driver braked early and caught Schumacher off guard. He locked up his tires with a panic brake and crashed into the leading driver. Schumacher was given a penalty which unfortunately cost him his deserving pole position in Monaco (the next race). You can name dozens of incidents where the following driver crashed into the guy ahead was given a penalty, but not Lewis. Masi getting moved to a new position, not surprising at all. It's proved to be a bad choice as the new guys haven't shown to be as good. With 5 laps remaining to first call no lapped cars would pass, which goes against normal procedure, and then to allow only 5 cars to go through which isn't normal either. There could be an argument about how Masi went against the FIA/F1's desire to have Lewis get his 8th championship, and therefore was canned. Or that they moved Masi to save face and not hurt their business from all the Lewis fans. There is also wording in the rules that the race director has the final say of what happens. So there is grounds that Masi was within his power to do what he did. This can and will be debated for years to come.
Allow me to add ... Max slowed down, to allow Lewis to pass. Inexplicably, Lewis slowed down behind him. It's a DIRECT violation of the rules to drive "unnecessarily slowly" ... and the one slowing down "unnecessarily", in that instance, was Lewis ... not Max. It was simply not "necessary" for Lewis to slow-down, behind a gradually slowing car! For all Hamilton knew, Max was having car trouble ... does Hamilton slow down behind every car slowing in a race? Further, the telemetry shows us that Lewis accelerated abruptly, right before the collision. So, on the one hand, we have the lead driver (Max) hitting the brakes after a longggg period of slowing, on a straight (!). We have another driver, who inexplicably slows down behind him, and then hits the gas right before the collision!! Now tell me, who is in DIRECT violation of the rules, and who is driving erratically and dangerously? "Brake check"?? Laughable, indeed. But it is another instance, among many, of the stewards doing everything possible to secure another championship for Lewis in 2021.
BEST POSSIBLE summary, of the view held by Hamilton fans of the final race of 2021. Verstappen won his first championship, by passing Hamilton on a racetrack. Everything else is just background noise.
The error you make, since Abu Dhabi 2021, is to link Max' championship and Massi's blunder. Those are 2 separate issues, for me. Max won his WDC because overall he drove better than Hamilton in 2021, IMO. Hamilton lost it because he made several costly mistakes over the season, Baku comes to mind. So, I immediatly accepted that Max had nothing to do in the controversy, and deserved his title. But, I still find regretable that an official like Masi could alter the outcome of races by manipulated the rules. Teams and drivers are crucified when they break the rules; officials should be treated no differently.
How did Masi "alter the outcome" of the race? All he did, was allow the top 2 drivers to RACE. For all we know, Hamilton was planning to "silverstone" Verstappen again, if Verstappen tried to pass ... just like Hamilton said he would! And the stewards would look the other way, again. No way that Masi ... or anyone ... knew the outcome. That's the WHOLE REASON why all the teams agreed to finish under green, if it was safe to do so. Let the drivers RACE!
