I have plenty of Ferrari's (analog, digital, coupe, spider, etc.) to enjoy now...and several more on order. My point/question has more to do with the desire to get a very late GTS, just as its successor is teed up (potentially with a V12). Also, whether there are others who purchased the 812 with the hope it was the last of its kind...and would choose to unload it in favor of a V12 replacement?
To me it more than just a V12, the 812SF is last without GPF (which can be removed but at the cost of fooling the ECU, which probably will not be possible with the successor), substantial reduction in drive-by sounds, non-haptic/digital touch points, unwanted nannies (have you see the dash of the Aventador replacement?), probably an ultra expensive 12v battery (7K every 3 to 4 years), etc; None of that represents "progress" to me, just "new'. Of course, the strongly hinted front hinged bonnet will be super cool, but it was also on the Gen5 Viper but too many other issues there so I stopped consideration with the previous gen and same for the 812 successor. Many others will continue with the back catalog as the future leaves them uninspired...
I dont mind getting a later car, this way I can gauge my reaction to the new model over more time. And to be fair I have an 812 GTS on order which I will spec in a few weeks so it will be very much one of the later ones.
Glenn, Apologies if noted above but if part of your motivation is to potentially get the last of and why not wait to get the replacement if it truly is….here is my potential wrinkle, is anyone able to guarantee there will be a spider. The GTS was the first production drop top v12 in 50 years. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t but I am holding on to mine as i absolutely love it. If they do produce one in 3 to 5 years I will consider trading in for it if it checks all the buttons but I really don’t think you can go wrong with this car. Interested to hear what you decide.
I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment to spec and take delivery. The 812 GTS as mentioned before ticks every box and it feels like a Ferrari. It has every modern feature but still feels like an analogue car. The performance is stellar even on track. So, this begs the question, why wait? The new car may be the last v12 but who cares? There will only be about 4K gts in the world so it’s still a rare car. I promise you won’t see yourself coming and going. Do you need more speed? Absolutely not. I spend more time looking at the speedometer than the forward view. Otherwise, in a few seconds it’s car impound time (Ontario, Canada). The new car may have a trick suspension, 48v system, all digital dash, haptic steering wheel, etc. For me I’ll cherish the 812 GTS as long as I can. Ferrari is about passion and feel, too much tech and unusable power erodes this, at least for me.
Sometime you have to call someone out to keep this site somewhat believable for Ferrari owners, if not the whole site will fade because people will not believe anything on it. . I am also aware that the thread is " 812 Replacement Rumors" In regards to the common sense part, if you were able to get an allocation of this car you are a fortunate person. The car sells well above the msrp and anyone can easily recoup the cost and put a few dollars in their pockets if they really do not like the car or want to purchase its successor for what ever reason (Last V12, better styling etc..). If the 812 GTS is the last NA V12 then you keep it, if the successor is a NA V12 the you trade for it. If you do not purchase the 812 and it is the last NA V12 then you missed the boat, make no sense to take that risk if your ultimate goal is to own the last NA V12 model. In addition, by purchasing this car it will only make it easier for you to get allocations going forward. I also find it odd that you own all these Ferraris and you are still waiting to spec it. Usually, the multiple purchasers of Ferrari already have a 812 GTS in the garage. Just seems odd not to already own one driving / enjoying it already and waiting to see what the successor is moving forward. This just does not make common sense.
There are long waits for certain new models for technical reasons or sometimes political reasons. Not everyone can be first and more complicated builds slow the build process and further extend production. Occasionally it takes a while for the client to be convinced of the merit for a new model. Some didn't like the idea of an exhaust saddled with the for them unnecessary GPF. Getting an early or late build simply means there is a story in the background...
Boxes yes..buttons no…too quick on my typing and brain. Great points on value and what an amazing car it is. I am coming up on warranty renewal which tends to be when I am done but no chance here. Love the car.
With F167 being NA V12 and certainly the Last NA V12 only, I think the 812 will be seen like the 488. 488 sits between Last NA V8 & Last of Line V8. 812 sits between last RWD Drive Pininfarina NA V12 & Last of Line NA V12… my next V12 will be either F12 or New F167.
I’m coming to the opinion that Ferrari will continue with a regular production V12 indefinitely, and the anticipated full takeover by EVs in the automotive world is going to fizzle and fade. The majority of cars and trucks will remain ICE (especially in the US). And as the horrors of mining lithium and other rare Earths by the hapless third World becomes more prominent in the first World consciousness the virtual signaling of owning an EV will evaporate and the “clean ICE” will hold equal if not superior footing. Or….a nuclear war annihilates civilization…or that gnawing pain in your gut turns out to be pancreatic cancer..or….
Hmm, I do not think so. Look at the name, 488, it was supposed to be a 4.8L V8 (such was the 458, 4.5L V8), but, going turbo was a disappointment (3.9L turbo, major regression, first time to go backwards on block size for the successor). The 812SF has a larger engine than the F12 and it is very likely the F167 will continue the same size (6.5L), with a little bit more power, maybe a little more RPM on the limit and a radically different design and underlying platform (the 488 design was not hugely different from the 458, they use basically the same platform) And then there is the sound, the 488 pales in comparison to the 458, the F167, in contrast will pale to the stock sound of the 812SF (pre-GPF - which includes essentially all USA production). So, that's my appraisal.
My 812 GTS is coming in two to three months, it will be one of the last cars I guess. My thinking is that I’ll most likely never have two modern V12 Ferraris at the same time, so if the next car is fantastic, I’ll trade it in due course, but if it turns out to be a let down, the 812 GTS already has everything one would ever need in an enthusiast vehicle. And in the long term, say 15-20 years, I see it’s value being quite stable, short economic cycles notwithstanding.
Not only do I agree with you- I can imagine a time when the EU realizes their targets are simply not possible, and they allow various exceptions and when they are making those exceptions, it might be nice to give some to a company employing people and making a lot of money for people in the EU and whose products dont really make any kind of meaningful impact in terms of emissions.
Maybe I didn’t explain it well.. I’m not talking sound or displacement, I’m saying the 488 and 812 are the middle child.. there is less love for them than it’s predecessor or successor, both predecessors are better looking and historically more gravitas in the V8/V12 Ferrari History and both successors will be historically end of line, and the market will demonstrate that.. not knocking 488 or 812, had a 488 Pista and the looks of 812 and rear wheel steering/assist stopped me buying one.
This is wishful thinking. Having spoken to eco-commies here in California, they could care less if you are driving a BEV, a hydrogen powered car or something else we don't even know about yet. They just don't want you driving an ICE car. And in their opinion, it's up to the auto manufacturers to figure out those other options, infrastructure to handle it be dammed.
Of additional merit.... The 812 was the end, not the middle. What is absolutely true, until some very distant future which may or may never occur, is the 812 was the last V12 to be the top model, the flagship. That all ended with the SF90 (by Ferrari's own proclamation). And it is positively true no matter what powertrain the F167 bears, it will not be the flagship. As for the F167, it most assuredly will continue with rear steer and quite possibly more (i.e. the 812C system and maybe the 48v suspension of the FUV), and, of course, electrically powered steering versus hydraulic. If I am able to follow your reasoning, the F12 will somehow merit a higher ("market will demonstrate") price than the 812 (coupe) (i.e. the F12 and the F167 will leave the 812SF behind in future pricing)? There has been a persist spread in those two existing models (price-wise) that I do not see changing in with any notable result. And, depending how well/not well Ferrari deals with all the regulatory requirements, the F167 may be a frustrating experience and the beauty of its design yet to be known. Rumors abound, but what will the result be? Hopefully we will know within 12 months. Remember newly EU enforced side-impact regulations could result in unfavorable visuals...(those same requirements resulted in the discontinuation of other models by other manufacturers).
I picked up he focused more on F12 as the last PF NA V12 which it was - end of an era of collaboration between two great icons. If the 167 is also NA then it is indeed middle child. If NA V12 continues then it is really nowhere except non-GPF which many GTS owners here say is no issue and prefer GTS sound. The more recent model always has the better market desire as most flip fearing the inevitable drop. We'll see. All great NA V12 cars.
Correct, that’s exactly how I meant it…and further to my point F12 was last of conventional rear wheel drive V12 line compared with this assisted 4 wheel steering lineage
My understanding is that the last cars will be end of year but they will be more simple spec - no Tailor Made. My deadline to lock in my Tailor Made spec was early October last year. I understand that will go into production soon which, is exceptionally quick for Tailor Made.
I have a GTS coming and they expect it to be complete late 1st quarter 2024. I havent put my spec together yet but it seems they will still be building the gts well into 2024. There are no Tailor Mades slots left but Atellier is still available.
Most Ferrari models with few exceptions are the “last of “ something. Whether that something is important depends on the individual who has or is buying that particular model. Ferrari has successfully used this to hook and reel in its clients like moths to a flame. I know I have been a victim of this more times than I can count however I was happy with each choice I have made. But my level of happiness has diminished with each subsequent latest and greatest Ferrari as I feel we are achieving diminishing returns with every new model. At some point I will probably reach equilibrium and buy no more- the GTS is very very close to that point for me. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
More ammunition for Benedetto Vigna to again question why they are bothering with the F167 when they are still building 812 GTS orders in 2024. The 'all electric' Ferrari is coming in 2025 so that doesn't leave much time for the 'new' old design F167. Maybe an earlier start is possible for F167 if it can co-exist on the assembly line with the 812 GTS? There are different people working on the F167 development program with new plates seen > FEPXXAR1 I wonder if a very high price ( 20 % + over SF90 base price ) for the F167 will make the price of the electric Ferrari more palatable?
This is partly why I made my initial post. My GTS won’t be built until sometime in ‘24. If at that point the F167 has a V12 and is being manufactured at the same time, some of the allure of the 812 diminishes in my mind. Obviously, there are plenty of variables and speculation at play here, but if the F167 is truly the last V12 GT…and is a shorter run to make way for EV’s, then it becomes more compelling to me than an end of the run GTS. Of course, it’s not lost on me that all of us here are contemplating first world problems…
Just keep one Puro and the 812 GTS. Also day355 promises NO arguments about the F167 body design unlike some other recent Ferrari models...
