Gorgeous theme and event - vision of Ferrari's future. Ferrari tethered Purosangue to an icon from the Hills of Tuscany. In the opening speech - stated how they keep secrets and why it's so important for cars to be given a proper debut among the Ferrari family. Posted some videos pics send a pm for Igram.
When I received the invite, I asked where the unveiling was going to be held…and was told you’ll find out when you get there lol. Don’t blame them a bit for keeping things under tight wraps.
Just curious if you believe the dealer has a reliable track record when making these assurances. Not questioning their intent, just wanted to get your POV.
One thing is for certain, with the expected production volume of the 296 being vastly higher than the SF90, if there are significant problems it will be revealed here quicker than it was for the SF90...
I dont think BAT is a good representation of these cars. I dont see many SF90 buyers running to BAT, but rather Ferrari Dealers.
With 80 SF90 coupes (14 spiders) currently listed on Autotrader, there is not a lack of variety or availability; BAT really holds no purpose when the market is flooded with conventionally (i.e., non-auction) available cars. And several SF90s have been available for 9+ months, dealers are nervous as these cars are not selling well and never will.
There are a lot of dealers on bring a trailer that are looking for cars to buy. I think this help in general to ballpark where the market is at on a specific make and model
Not sure if you saw that autotrader apparently had some sort of glitch, at the same time the SF90 listings popped up, the 812SF popped up (to 95), and now both are back down to about their usual (about 80 for each)...
What surprises me is they are still selling way above MSRP. Would of thought by now the prices would be coming down.
Are they? The "ask" is above, but, for any that do sell...I would think the price much much lower than advertised. That is why so many of them languish for months on end.
80 cars available for a total population of 331 million in the US, that's the definition of scarcity/rarity not of oversupply.
When you consider the total US Production is likely less than 500, then 80 becomes a very big number in the Ferrari universe, anytime more than 10 percent of single model's production is for sale (at the same time) you have a problem car...what other Ferrari has had such a situation ever?
Problem car, these are toys, when I buy one I consider the money lost when I sell it whatever I get back I consider bonus, if buyers of these toys are concerned about depreciation etc. they have no business buying these cars to begin with, I can not think of a worse asset to buy if you are worried about the financials post purchase. TBH this thread shouldn’t even exist. Having said all that I am undeterred in my opinion that this car is not oversupplied in relation to its market size.
I never wrote anything about "depreciation" or "toys", I said 'problem' like there are many of these cars with problems, good your's is a happy one downunder. As for being oversupplied,I think only because so many are for sale (meaning there is some problems with the car). If the car was solid (as generally all non-hybrid Ferrari is, in terms of Ferrari's being 'solid') I think far fewer would be for sale. I know of multiple SF90 buy-backs due to unsolvable "glitches", I do not know of any other model with that issue. In the USA, 23,555 Ferraris were delivered from 2005-2022, of that, currently on Autotrader, 1,616 are offered for sale, that is 6.8% of all made during that time are for sale. Currently there are more than 16% of all SF90 coupes made for USA for sale (if 500 is the correct number), that's a problem, that would be like 47 F12TDFs being for sale at the same time. And, there may be fewer than 500 made for USA which means the percentage for sale may be even higher.
What one thinks or believes is quite irrelevant, the market doesn't care. BaT isn't representative of an entire market but it does provide valid data points, especially when they keep getting reinforced. A lot of exotic cars of all brands sell over there and more importantly a lot of potential buyers and dealers watch the auctions not only to get said data points, but also you get a sense of market sentiment direction. A lot of RNMs there lately because sellers have been reluctant to accept the new reality, and every day they wish they had taken the highest offer of a few weeks ago. They go back to their forums and rationalize a bunch of reasons why that's not really the market speaking only to realize that it was speaking and they should have listened, because it's gotten worse since. You think the sellers that didn't accept $75k over msrp a couple of months ago aren't kicking themselves after seeing the red car yesterday top out at $100k under msrp? Aside from everything else people are simply not reaching for cars these days even if they desire them and can afford them cause there's no reason to catch a falling knife, that creates its own negative feedback loop, especially on small production high price cars where it only takes small amount of potential buyers to step aside to drop the market 10%. It is what it is, I think it's something like nine out of ten recent RNM of SF90s. Hopefully those that bought them are ok with that, but at this point the actual data is now substantive enough to draw the trajectory of the market trend and not be able to say this car or that car is an outlier. It should also be noted that not everyone watches BaT, and there are plenty of people still walking into Ferrari dealers and buying these at six month ago prices not yet aware of the downward trend ... but that will eventually bleed down, if not for those who are buying the cars but in the trade in offers they get from dealers who do know. Believe that every F dealer in the country is aware of everything that's happened on BaT with this model recently and have adjusted their trade in offers accordingly to get cover on the downside.
10% would be a very low figure for US and a great problem for Ferrari! Ferrari dealers in the US oversubscribe cars like the SF90 & Pista as the “exotic car demographic” (typically holds a car for 18 months and have no car in their garage over 3 years old) is large. I would expect 25-30% of a rolling 18 month up for sale. So of around 390 registered in 2022 we can assume 100 will be up for sale. As the cars work their way into hands of the ultra luxury demographic the number for sale will decrease (similar to Pista). As we cautioned other brands it’s not necessarily the car but the demographic. Ferrari US dealers love the “exotic car” group and they help total volume but long term its nearly impossible to run a business exclusively off of them. Ask McLaren! FWIW - SF90 is the by far the most popular Ferrari for teens in the US. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
This is only true if we know the demand side of this equation, which we do not (at least not with any sense of definite clarity). You've assumed everyone of those 331M actually want an SF90, which is certainly not true.
. In the US the exotic car demographic sees no difference between a F12TDF vs SF90 - 25-30% will be up for sale in 18 month rolling. That’s the reason behind the contracts etc on limited cars and why collectors in the US are so important to Ferrari. If you’re a RACE shareholder, the SF90 made Ferrari relevant again in the US to a younger demographic. (an issue when the average Rolls Royce owner is nearly 10 years younger than Ferrari owner in US!). If we want to judge SF90 success based off of resale percentages vs other Ferraris, it’s best to use EU/UK, Japan & China markets. Unless you also consider Pista a failure in the US. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Unless you are dedicated to charting VINs (of cars offered for sale), how do you have any knowledge of this '18 month rolling' sales? Pista? I never mentioned, but some claim 3000 were made for USA, I have no specific insights there, but, how would the Pista be a failure (besides the ridiculous tri-annual $6K+ 12v battery replacement)? Autotrader currently shows 61 Pista available, if the actual USA production is 1500, that would be 4% which is in the same range as nearly every other model released in the past 15 years. In general, as time goes by, more cars are totaled and the remaining find longer term ownership so fewer for sale. Look at the Speciale (not Aperta), approx 800 made for USA, 12 for sale (1.5%), etc. But, for the SF90 to find 16%+ of its total USA production being offered at the same time, that is extraordinary. Even the 812SF, with about 1100 total USA production currently shows 77 for sale (7%).
