SF90 Stradale Resale

Now take the 812 GTS with 42 (autotrader) for sale in the US on less volume. That is exactly more extraordinary to me but it comes down to; market (US), demographic (exotic), dealers (sales tactics)and to a certain extent price.

I think we can agree that time usually absorbs dealers oversubscription for desirable Ferraris (Pista, SF90 & 812 GTS) in the US.

In Europe for 2022, Ferrari sold nearly the same number of 812 GTS and SF90 - so that might provide you with a better comparison.

 

If the SF90 and 812GTS are delivered in same manner in USA then the 812GTS is right where it should be, 8% or less.

Plus, out of all cars you have mentioned, I only know of SF90s that were "bought back" by dealers/Ferrari because of unsolvable problems, I do not know of that situation with any other Ferrari model, ever.

 

FWIW I visit South Florida 4-6 times a year and have since 2006. Always stop by FMFL when there and actually bought my Hellcat from them in 2016 <i know- odd- funny story>.

They've always had massive showroom(s)- now even larger- and an extensive inventory but as usual most Ferraris are sold/hold/awaiting delivery.

When there in November they had SIX (6) SF90s (2 w FA package) - all for sale/available.

I can't recall them EVER having SIX of any model for sale/available on the floor- Even in the 360/430 days.

I think this at least relevant to this thread and at least somewhat indicative of some combination of desire/hesitancy/supply/issues/price.

Cheers

 

I don’t pay any attention to his posts, he just got it in for SF90

jeez put a sock in it…blah blah we know you don’t like SF90, he’ll you don’t even like Ferrari, you are a Lambo guy, not sure why you are even on it. Look, between me and my brother we had 7 variants of Lamborghini Gallardo’s. Early adopters in late 2003/2004 with Coupes. Between these 7 cars 2 were sent back to factory due to electrical Gremlins, both cars were used for testing purposes and new cars were delivered to us within 4 months. Never lost faith in the brand, understood what they were trying to do back then. Do you think I got on lambo forums and slagged them and their cars off like you do on other peoples cars and total hearsay, “ I’ve heard”, even if true, what gives you the right to come on here and slag off Ferrari and SF90 in particular, when you only have lambo in your blood?? Do you know how difficult it is for Ferrari and this Hybrid adoption is, of course some cars will have terminal problems and I’m sure Ferrari will reimburse the client with car or money back, such as Lambo did for me and my brother back in 2004 and 2005, and we continued to buy lambo until 2009.. and that was just for faulty electronics on a new v10 model.. if anyone had the right to get on a forum and complain like you it would be us on the lambo forum because we actually had the experiences not f… Hearsay.. And do me a favor with your 2005-2022 nonsense, you go back to 458 and 488 times you will always find a time period when there were a lot of coupes for sale as they were swapping over to spiders, such as now with SF90, not happening with F8 because of much lower production numbers and end of line story. These cars will all get snapped up and in 6 months same thing with show up in 296 GTB numbers for sale.. also total rubbish they built as many SF90 Coupes to 812 GTS, way more 812 GTS already been built and will continue to be built than SF90 Coupe let alone SF90 Coupe with Assetto Fiorano Package.. head back over to Lambo forum troll..

 

Did you hold back anything?

I have no interest in any "Lamborghini" after the 1998 Diablo, VW/Audi is doing their thing, whatever, I have nothing to say, I do not follow it, no comment there.

To me, Ferrari is the last remaining true Italian mark, I want them to do well. I am sure Ferrari is learning on the hybrid tech, it is not their "thing", and they really should not have to go in that direction.

As for SF90/812GTS production, not my claim, I do not find where 812GTS production/sales are separately available, even on carsalesbase (closest is number of V12 Ferrari makes each year which they do include in their annual reports but not a model breakdown), I was speculative, if production was similar based on the post of another. As for 2005-2022, it is documented, see NHTSA brake recall, clearly shows number of USA cars produced, which was the entire production, and then autotrader is easy enough to obtain data on current for sale (no 'non-sense').

My entire point it is odd for so many SF90s to be for sale, for a long period of time, many sitting unsold for 9+ months and even my local dealer has a "growing collection" that is not moving.

If you do not want to see my observations, the ignore function of this website is your friend.

 

Oh wait Aventador Replacement out in March, V12 with Hybrid.. that will go well for them, judging by my experience of just a new V10 engine and reliable Audi components, of course not one car will go wrong and have to be replaced in the first year, and you wouldn’t mention it if they did…

 

Correct, no mention will be made.

 

Great will find the ignore link…

 

Update to my post #153 - I just just chatted with my guy at FMFL on another matter and inquired as to the SF90s - Of the SIX SF90s they had in November they sold ONE of the AF-equipped cars. The other FIVE are still available. And they took one in on a 1-for-2 trade for a Maserati MC20+Portofino M so now are back up to SIX.

That said, when I was there they were all priced at either side of $800K so that is probably a contributing factor. But historically FMFL always has rather exorbitant pricing "shown" on their available showroom cars given the wealthy demographic and it is not unusual for someone to walk in or contact them remotely and do an ACH transfer for 3-4 cars without even a discussion on pricing. I would imagine if a SF90 buyer wanted to sit down and negotiate price they would be somewhat flexible but not sure.

Again - I have no dog in this fight - I think SF90s are amazing Ferrari's and amazing supercars in general. Personally, they do not appeal to me for a myriad of reasons - the hybrid/"bricking" issues be one of them but not the only one. There are "new(er)" Ferrari's I have considered dumping some/all of my small collection to obtain but the SF90 is not one of them.

Cheers

 

The split for EU is close to 50% 812 GTS vs 50% 812 & 812C. If the US has a similar distribution or even 70/30 it’s over 20%.

SF90 is probably the most complex and sophisticated Ferrari created. The amount of software code is higher than most EVs and it’s build costs is also higher. Its basically a training lab for Ferrari so unsolvable issues will take longer to solve. Actually I expected more issues.

Its a bit like comparing F1 N/A (12, 10 & 8) era vs current hybrid era. The level of complexity and sophistication aren’t comparable. Back in the day our formula was simple: swallow more air and optimize the piston speed/mass/size equation. Today the game is played differently and nothing is wrong with that.

Give Ferrari credit for producing the SF90, its not aimed at the LDM crowd but a new generation of car enthusiasts.
Time waits for no man.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

So true, but the heavy hand of regulation is the sole reason for Ferrari to play in the EV sandbox and, of course, the final outcome of the regulations is to ensure privately owned cars are no more...such progress I can do without...however, time for a great song...

 

The asking prices are sometimes $300K over MSRP. The latest one that sold in my market (that I am aware of) sold for a little over $700K and was a $585 MSRP. You are right in that they take a long time to sell.

 

Thank you, that's a great perspective. Seems those willing to pay such a premium are few and farther between than before. Recent 'bid to' on BaT seems to indicate a 10% premium or less is now the "going rate". Seems at some point the asking prices will collapse unless there is such 'hot demand' to order the SF90VS with the prerequisite you currently have an SF90 in the garage (I am certain that will be a requirement many dealers will be overjoyed to require if for no other reason than to move inventory). But, will the SF90VS have hot demand, history would indicate yes, but, with the current AF edition (which I thought was going to replace the need for a VS edition), besides some different styling, I wonder what will the VS feature above and beyond, maybe remove AWD and rear only with more power?

 

I didn’t assume anything, do you think I don’t know that not every single citizen in the US would want a SF90?

I simply highlighted the size of the market the goods are exposed to, logic dictates that there would be a lot more buyers within such a large pool and the likelihood of demand much greater, US consumes more exotics cars than any other nation in the world and that’s reinforced by the fact that the US is Ferrari’s largest market, so rather than highlighting and stating the obvious you could’ve saved me and you the the trouble of this discussion which is quite pointless TBH

 

I don’t know what you wrote in particular because I don’t read everything what everyone writes, this is a large forum, it would take too much of my time.

As for the TDF comparison, an appreciating car manufactured in limited numbers which everyone’s holds on for dear life hoping to go to the moon isn’t the same as a non limited car which was sold to pretty much to anyone who was quick enough to put an order in, many ended up with flippers, some changed their coupes for Spiders, some being 1st year of hybrid came with the usual bugs not unlike many other first year production cars come with, some simply don’t like the car and just want to sell it, some are being told by their wives to sell, run into financial troubles, some are for sale but really aren’t, there are tones of reasons why people sell stuff, once again IMO no matter how you look at it for a in production new car available to anyone 80 cars on the market in US isn’t a lot certainly not reason enough to think that the sky is falling.

Anyway it’s the weekend I will go and drive mine and push it further into depreciation

 

Barrett-Jackson Auction Result from Jan 28, 2023. $675k hammer price. $742.5k with buyer’s commission. Non-Assetto Fiorano SF90 Coupe.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2021-FERRARI-SF90-263749
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Somebody was over served and got carried away...

 

I don’t know about the USA market, but in the UK, they are exceptional value for money, especially against a Pista Coupe. I had two Pistas in 2 countries and after driving Assetto Fiorano SF90 a lot on track and road, and the Pistas became redundant, sold within 6 weeks.. think it’s gets tarnished with this 1st Ferrari Hybrid Brush, but wait to the 296 are out in big numbers and people will adapt to the Haptic changes which are coming for the whole range, bar Hypercar I would imagine, and the SF90 will be looked at differently.

Also they are very rare cars here in the UK, 105 Assetto Fiorano Coupe were delivered, compare that with 480 Pista Coupe, 180 Pista Spider, 330 458 Speciale, 55 Speciale Aperta, 85 599 GTO, 80 F12 TDF delivered to the UK. I’m not comparing cars here, just the UK numbers. Once these numbers are known I would expect in 12 to 15 months the AF cars will be viewed differently and would imagine harder to come across. Again I don’t know about USA or Europe market, and I’m not comparing cars here, they are completely different and offer different experiences, and I was lucky to own a few of them…

 

Rarity is a "market advantage" but the 296 may be a real challenge for the SF90, since it looks like it's offering similar performance at a lower price, and probably with better reliability.
And the SF90 is a very recent car, so the lack of performance advantage for a supposedly higher-end product may be problematic.

 

Rarity doesn’t mean desirability, I know that, but simple maths, there are a quarter of AF SF90 Coupe v 488 Pista Coupe, and a third of AF SF90 v 458 Speciale in UK, it will have an effect, especially against the Pista. On the 296, Ferrari will bring at least 1000 GTB to UK over the production run, so probably about 500 AF 296 GTB with a 50/50 split…

 

Curious if anyone has any recent intel on global production (or order) volume for both SF90 models and also what the numbers are for the U.S. market?

 

I don't know how many VS units are going to be produced but...it appears that a number of the current SF90AF customers who qualify by also owning 1 or 2 modern Ferraris (or any other qualifying factor) may be trading in for the VS. This makes sense since AF is obviously more hard-core and make DD duties more difficult due to lack of lift and bumpy road setting. Customers who purchased non AF SF90's less likely to trade since they already opted for a less aggressive ride. I would assume the non AF customer who qualify for a VS would add a VS to their non AF build as opposed to trading in.

 

I would presume the same.. current AF customers are higher up the list.

 

It would also appear to make sense if we saw a reduction in the number of units for sale at this point since current ownership is a prerequisite to be considered for a VS.

 

Market is stubbornly refusing reduction, 25% of the currently advertised (86 per Autotrader) have been on the market since August last year and earlier.