How bad are these compression numbers? | FerrariChat

How bad are these compression numbers?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Copperhed51, Feb 22, 2023.

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  1. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Before anybody asks, no I have not had a leak down test done, so I have no idea what that would show.

    Anyway, this is a 1999 355 with around 15,000 miles on it. Hasn’t been driven much or hard for quite a while. The compression check was done on a “warm” engine that only idled for approximately 5 minutes. The numbers were as follows:

    Cylinder/PSI
    #1: 132
    #2: 131
    #3: 134
    #4: 137
    #5: 141
    #6: 139
    #7: 130
    #8: 138

    Should I run? The numbers are consistent across cylinders, but disturbingly low. I just want to make sure I’m not missing anything before I walk away from the deal. Does this look like something an Italian tuneup would probably fix?
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Not very good. Should be above 200lbs. Since it is so even I suspect a bad gauge, a bad method, maybe a cam timing issue. Something like that. We just never see them go bad evenly. Warm or cold makes no important difference on 355. The Mahle rings have so little gap cold they will make great compression cold. I do it on fresh motors still on the engine stand and Mahle rings will give perfect compression in those engines.

    I would not buy without some answers. It may be OK but it may not be. At this point there is no way to know. The guy who did the compression test should be able to give some answers. I have never, not once in over 40 years handed someone a compression test and just shrugged.
     
  3. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Thanks for the info. I’m new around here, but I know your reputation already, so I appreciate your reply. I was also suspicious of how evenly bad the numbers were. The mechanic who did the test is not a Ferrari guy (shocker, I know), so I’m not sure how much he can tell me other than the straight numbers. He is supposedly going to check his gauge against another one tonight to rule that out as the problem. I’d like to buy the car, but I can’t do it with the numbers I’ve been given so far. I do have a video of one of the cylinders being tested if that would help provide any insight.
     
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  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    What city is the car in? Is there any good reason it was not taken to someone who knows the car better? Ferraris have their own idiosyncrasies and you really want it looked at by someone who knows those. If you tell us a city someone around here should be able to guide you to that guy.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  5. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    The car is in San Antonio. Now that I think about it, I called you a week or so ago about getting the PPI done, but I think you said you don’t travel that far to do them. Obviously Ferrari of San Antonio could do it, but I have a general distrust of dealerships and they overcharge for everything
     
    cavlino likes this.
  6. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
  7. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,450
    Los Angeles
    Doubtful (but not impossible) you have valve guide trouble on a low mileage '99. And if compression was actually that low the car would run like dog ****. People have posted correct comp test procedure here in the past. Print it out, give it to your mechanic, and ask him to do it again. Make sure battery is charged and throttle is wide open. Your numbers look like he forgot put put the pedal to the floor.
     
  8. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    As soon as I saw the numbers, I asked him if he did that and he said there’s a bypass on the throttle body, so it was unnecessary. Any experience on compression with WOT vs closed? Seemed like the engine was starved for air since they were all so low. He did say he had a jumper pack connected to the battery for the test, so most likely all good there.

    As for the oil on the plug threads, are there seals on the valve covers that can go bad and leak a little oil into the plug holes? That would probably be my completely uninformed diagnosis
     
  9. MAD828

    MAD828 F1 Rookie

    Oct 8, 2011
    2,631
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Elliott Caras
    I have tested with throttle plates closed and open, no discernible difference on the F355 I tried that on. Still the results look like user or equipment error. 130 psi is super low.
     
  10. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Video of the harbor freight compression gauge in action on one of the cylinders. Does anything look fishy other than that?

     
  11. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2014
    2,024
    NE FL
    Full Name:
    Ken
    It's very odd to see them perfectly consistent, but low.
    How many cranks?
    What's the battery fully charged? You'll actually see a difference if the engine is slowly turning over versus fast turning over with a fully charged battery
    Was it a particularly low pressure weather day?
    Just brainstorming ideas, maybe a bunch of little factors added up to being low. Could be a bad gauge.
     
  12. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Looks like around 6 cranks in the video I posted. Supposedly had a jumper pack on the battery. Barometric pressure was almost exactly standard and elevation in San Antonio is ~650ft. Seems like all those boxes are checked, but maybe the cranking speed is low (see video above). I think I’ve seen YouTube videos where the cranking speed is higher.
     
  13. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,777
    Lake Villa IL
    Throw HF tester into the trash.

    Retest with compression tester worth using.

    In it's entirety. Hose and gauge.
     
  14. Zamboniman308

    Zamboniman308 Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2020
    504
    Chicago IL
    I'd start by buying a different gauge and hand it to him. Small investment in the scheme of things. Heck you can probably "rent" one from a parts store. Cranking appears fast enough but I'm not sure I trust the motion on the gauge.. The first pop into around 120 is promising then it really stalls out. Even if there's poor compression I'd expect it to climb a little on each following crank.

    I wouldn't throw it out yet until you have a known controlled test to validate against. And Hammer down just in case.

    tester sealed well into the hole?
    how does it run?
     
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  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall
    Having the throttle open is old boiler plate procedure but in reality doesn't matter on most modern cars. Have performed many times both ways on 355 and theres no difference as a prior poster said.

    Oil on threads is from an oil leak into the plug well and not from oil in cylinder.
     
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  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall
    Its not that I do not travel to San Anntonio to do PPI. I have been to foreign countries to do PPI.

    I do not do PPI for non locals who want me or already have me service their cars. Too long a story to tell but last time I did that nearly landed me a trumped up lawsuit.
     
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  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,595
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Harbor Freight compression gauge with a professional mechanic who you had to pay for the work. Time to move on. All your questions would have been readily answered by anyone that has decent experience on the 355. I am not saying that to be snooty. This model is not something an average BMW or even Porsche mechanic has much knowledge with.
     
  18. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    The numbers seem low, but what odd is they are really consistent. Usually, a problem is on one or a few cylinders, not all uniformly. It sort of looks like a Guage issue. A problem on all 8 cyliders yet giving all consistent results sounds more like a procedure or equipment issue, but without redoing it with a different Guage, it makes it hard to tell what's really going on.

    Sent from my SM-G990U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    San Antonio has people who can help you. I will reserve comment on the dealer.

    Go to the Texas forum and ask the San Antonio guys there.
     
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  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall
    I had a 360 guy have a PPI by a generic service. They missed over $10,000 worth of stuff because it was 360 specific.

    The brakes and tires were accurately described but nothing else was.
     
  21. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Thanks for all the help, guys. I’ve more or less decided to move on from the car. I’ve got another one in mind with a much better history and a knowledgeable Ferrari mechanic checking it out for me. I’ll pay a little more, but it will be worth it to get a mostly known quantity. Obviously, it could have the world’s best history and PPI done and still blow up 100 miles later, but my odds of getting a good car are much greater. Looking forward to sharing the car here if everything goes smoothly with the transaction.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  22. Tarek307

    Tarek307 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2018
    1,349
    Long Beach, CA & Alexandria,Egypt.
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    Tarek Salah
    You should give us a little more info on the car, manual or F1 ? color? just so people are careful when buying incase its back on the market and these results aren't disclosed
     
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  23. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,450
    Los Angeles
    Seems like you're blaming the car for an incompetent mechanic. Would be easy to get a compression test done right.
     
    tres55 likes this.
  24. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    It’s not just the car. The price is going to go up $5k if I get another test done that shows good compression and/or leak down. Pile that on top of an accident on the CARFAX, sticky buttons, transmission leak, curbed wheels, cracked door seals, etc and it’s time to move on. Without the $5k increase just to get the test done right, I’d still be after the car, despite its other issues. I was just avoiding airing the dirty laundry about the deal, but whatever. It’s not my laundry.
     
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  25. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    That is a good attitude. Not to mention it's funny as hell.
     
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