Considering a 1990 348 TS

Probably best to ask this on the 348/355 forum, but the common electrical problems that come to mind are:

The wiring near the door hinges disintegrating (affecting windows, doorlocks, lights, etc)
Connections at the back of the HVAC panel coming loose (causing flashing displays)
Ancient aftermarket equipment failing and interfering with other systems
HVAC blower motor speed control failure
Motorised "mouse" seatbelts (if applicable)
Alternator issues. Check the power rating. Look for additional earth straps for extra reliability.
Heavy current devices such as radiator fans and fuel pumps melting relay/fuse panels.

These issues are well known and there are usually lots of solutions (for DIY-ers).

This is a big win. Better make sure that your SLOW DOWN and CHECK ENGINE lights haven't been disconnected

 

This car doesn't happen to be silver over red, does it?

 

I'm not sure why anyone would ever consider buying the 348ts, especially not with 20K miles.

Didn't the former President of Ferrari once call it the worst Ferrari ever made?

Ray

 

Wow. Just wow. Clearly there’s a bridge around here missing it’s troll.

Guy comes on here and asks for legitimate advice.

You s%#t all over what very well might be his Ferrari dream.

Come on, man. Do better.

 

Yeah, Di Montezemolo loved his:

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https://www.motortrend.com/features/lunch-with-luca-the-man-who-really-made-ferrari-famous-18867/

The OP specifically asked for "downfalls for a 1990 348TS" - the car itself is a downfall and nearly put Ferrari out of business.

Perhaps you weren't around when customers traded their 328's in for 348's and then showed back up a few days later at the dealership mad as hell and demanding their 328's back? That happened at least twice that I know of at our local Ferrari dealer back in the late 80's (where my friend was the GM at the time).

Or what might very well be his future Ferrari nightmare. He's smart to ask about the 348 on here before buying one. Same goes for the F355, which was a super fun car to drive, but had a bad habit of falling apart as it went down the road.

Here's another article about the 348:

Article title: "Bow to the comprehensive hideousness of the Ferrari 348"
https://www.thedrive.com/supercars/4387/what-is-the-worst-ferrari-ever-made

And another:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/according-to-montezemolo-the-348-is-the-worst-ferrari-ever-made.257634/

Buy whatever you want; just be aware of what you are buying. See ya on the bridge.

Ray

 

"Its troll" - don't they teach grammar in SC?

Ray

 

Thank you for proving my point.

 

What is your point? Don't say anything negative about poorly made Ferraris just because it might hurt someone's feelings?

Ray

 

Click bait articles. Try actually reading period reviews, I have the original rags, and it was consistently picked in shootouts.

Di Montezemolo was basically saying everything before me sucked left him be the savior. He was trying to raise his profile. There were 12 month waiting lists for the 348 before the economy crashed. Bottom fell out of the car market. When it came back, the rags gushed over the spider.

As far as your anecdote....I know of at least 2 times guys begged dealers to take their 328s and sell them the 348 because their friends had them and loved them.



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Those cars didn't have 20,000 miles on them.

Ray

 

Underrated cars do have a value of their own as you can buy them without an inflated premium. The 348 complements this with reasonable maintenance costs (by Ferrari standards).

From first hand experience, it was not worse made than the 456, less frightening than the BB, but it had to compete against the NSX that was boringly perfect.

So yes, the 348 had its issues, but can be easily sorted out (tons of advices on FerrariChat). Compared to other Ferrari, that's a car that is less demanding in terms of maintenance costs with an engine that is easy to access and no-nonsense electronics. The 355 has addressed some of the original issues, but that's a more tricky car to maintain. This makes the 348 really worth considering if you want to keep it in the long term.

It's one of the last "analogue" cars by Ferrari. In the mid-term there will be a market for it. So not a monster horsepower, but definitively a sweet car. If the OP has fallen in love for it, he should go for it.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. That exact same article has been circulating over and over with slight edits for as long g as I can remember by various click bait online car journals, among other things. It's opinion branded as facts.

348 has issues, sure so do all cars. It, however, was never as bad as the fake history likes to recall, kind of like you're pushing, actually. I get it hating is fun we all do it.

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Okay, fair enough. I mean the OP is gonna have to listen to all opinions (good, bad and otherwise) and do his own research then make the final call on it. I'm just relating what I know about them based on customers at the local Ferrari dealer throwing fits over taking delivery of their 348's and my friend who repairs them talking about headaches.

Also, I have to say: I really take issue with anyone on this forum attempting to silence my views and/or calling me a "troll" simply because I won't leave a glowing 5 star review or because it might "hurt the guy's dream to own a Ferrari". Get real. If he's that delicate, go buy a Prius for God's sake.

This all sort of reminds me a great deal of when someone at Amazon suggested to Jeff that, "we should delete all reviews on products that aren't 5 stars" and he told them no way, because it would cause people not to trust any reviews if they were all censored.

I think the OP should do further research into this subject and I think having both positive and negative input is valuable here. 20,000 miles on a 348ts is just asking for problems if you ask me. Even on the much better F355, 20K miles is buying a nightmare typically.

Ray

 

"Luca. The man who made Ferrari famous".

Really ? No doubt Montezemolo made Ferrari profitable, but the brand had been famous decades before he joined the executive board. We should always take journalists assertions with a pinch of salt...

 

Enlighten us. What are the issues at 20k miles. I mean, you seem to know. Many have 75k or more miles. So what exactly are the issues. You know, because you're so versed in the subject we can all learn from you. Please enlighten us as to the issues for the 348 at 20k miles or more...

I mean, your view must have some data behind it. You know actual facts, or is it just your "feeling"?

No one is trying to silence you, but speak as if it's not an opinion , it really seems like an opinion that lacks substance is all.

That is fine. Your opinion is fine, but I am still dying to hear your report of areas of concern at 20k miles.

You did say "if you ask me" so I'm asking.


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Seriously, are you joking? A 32 year old Ferrari 348ts with 20K miles. Yeah, should be totally fine.

Just read post #1 on this thread:

1. Car sat for "some" years
2, Engine out service required
3. Sorting out a list of "electrical, and other odds & ends"

I'd make sure a compression and leak down test are run. Cars which sit "for some years" have a nasty habit of rusting the rings into the cylinder walls, which never helps matters. Again, leak down test and compression test is a good idea here. I'd even go so far as asking them to run an inspection bore scope camera down the spark plug holes so you can have a look at the state of the pistons and cylinder walls. Also, since it's an early car, check to see if the tensioner was updated. Check to make sure 2nd gear shifts correctly - not just around town, but at redline. If you need to replace the 2nd gear syncrhos, do it while the motor/gearbox are out. Check the frame and undercarriage for signs of rust, cracking of coatings. Check the interior, obviously (switches peeling, getting gummy, etc.). Check to make sure the A/C works, because most likely it doesn't. I'd actually be shocked if it did.

If there are electrical issues - and it sounds like there are - be very sure they are addressed correctly. I do extensive re-wiring of vehicles over here. Most people who work on wiring harnesses have very little understanding of electrical engineering nor enough understanding of physics to really fully understand what they are doing half the time when it comes to automotive electronics and wiring. Many places absolutely butcher wiring harnesses with all their BS crimping all over the place and terrible wire stripping, etc. If the electrical system needs attention, demand that Marine grade tinned wire be used. Demand mechanical connected and soldered joints be used. Demand adhesive lined 3:1 heat shrink be used. No electrical tape ever (ala 'no wire hangers ever'). Only self fusing 3M tape. Use proper sheathing. If someone butchers your wiring harness, it's usually a bad deal.

Anyway, hopefully the OP is dealing with a really well kept example. But from what I have read so far, not totally sure. Normally I think PPI's are a waste of money, but in this case I would recommend it if the shop you are dealing with hasn't already gone through the big stuff and/or if they aren't really Ferrari savvy guys.

I think maybe it would be helpful if the OP clarified exactly what "engine out service" means in this particular case. Were the belts done for example or did they just replace the water pump only? How extensive was the service, etc. If they did do the belts, did they also use dial indicators to re-time the cams or just a belt swap?

If anyone else wants to know why I'm not a huge fan of the 348ts, all I can say is: Google is your friend - but don't let me stop you from buying your dream car. I mean I know a guy who owns a 208 GT4 and he loves it - I wouldn't have that car for free, but he loves it.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Been working all night installing spiral lock piston pin retainers, which may explain why some of my posts this morning have come across a bit on the harsh side. Nothing puts me in a worse mood than installing those creations from hell... so I apologize if I offended anyone on this thread.

Before I head to bed: I hereby volunteer Ferrarium to do the PPI for the OP, since he seems to be #team348 and all.

good nite

Ray

 

I had a PPI on a silver/red '90 348 TS in the northeast US a long while back. It had also sat idle for many years prior to the PPI. It was my understanding that after we were unable to agree upon a number that the car went back into storage and has sat ever since. I still have the report and photos (but not the VIN, unfortunately) that I would have shared with you had this been the same car.

Thanks for confirming it is NOT that car.

 

I've got a 32 year old 348 that I got 5 years and change ago with 21k miles. It's now got nearly 30k. I even got one of those extra terrible early '89 cars.

I fixed the things that needed fixing when they needed fixing. I had no service records. When I did the major I went a little deeper and got things preventatively...you know, becasue it's a 34 year old car. For the record, I did the same with my 1978 corvette, and my 1971 Plymouth, and my 1968 Plymouth, and the MGBs, and the Austin Healey...

Not one of them ever let me down...

@rob58 are you a DIYer? Are you having it serviced by someone else?

@RayJohns first hand experience counts for a lot, which you clearly have none of. You should find a Lamborghini Urraco board to harass.

sjd

 

Robert,

Fchat is better than this! I think the severe winter has gotten to the minds of many.

The 348 is a great car. It was terribly executed but a typical example of Ferrari of that era. Ferrari had no solutions nor cared after sale. We collectively fixed every issue in the 348 and these sorted examples are very bullet proof. Anything you come across there is a fix. I was given some of the 1st rides at Willow Springs raceway at an FNA sponsored event for the 348 debut. The test drivers took us around the track for "E" ticket rides all day long in six 348 variants. They beat the cars all day long on track with no failures and had as much fun driving them as we did as passengers. The 348 can be abused long and hard. I was ahead of the curve fixing these cars. In the early days there were electrical contact issues where we chased ghosts. At that time Stabilant-22 was our somewhat savior. After recurrent ghosts I converted my 1990 348 streetcar to a trackday car and finally a fully caged racecar. Ghosts were gone as 90% of the electronics were gone. I could beat that engine all day long living at redline. Later SRI DaveHelms came up with controversial gold connector kits that transformed all Ferraris electrical issues. I have run SRI gold pin kits in several Ferraris and in my current 550 maranello I think 15 years? It must be 20 years since I did the 1st kit. Ferrari was/is little better than Lucas when it come to electronics. Those who could not live with the gold connector pin controversy just repinned the car in quality Tin pins for similar positive result.

Ferrari 348 early chassis handling is fine. Unskilled Drivers were the problem. Ferrari had to dumb down the chassis tuning for drivers. The 348 is extremely tunable meaning you can have a really bad tune too with bad results. OEM take great care to design cars safe at expense of performance. Ferrari did things to make the car safer like mess with front shocks and chassis pickup points different rear subframe. None of that make the car faster because we tuned them when racing. The 1990 challenge car was no faster in laptime than the 1994 challenge car as evidenced when racing in the challenge series.

 

Look, the opinion of this 348tb owner is just that: one single data point - whatever that is worth in the economy of this thread. However the 1991 348 with ~30k miles I acquired from a gentleman in Canada three years ago has been as trouble-free as one would expect a 30+ year old car to be. Certainly far more reliable than I expected any car its age to be. No PPI, went with my gut feeling after shopping the owner perhaps even more than the car. And I wasn't disappointed the least.

It's had some mild electrical issues at the outset that I (not an experienced mechanic by any means) could easily resolve. Other than that this car has been utmost reliable - not to mention a barrel of fun! It's light, nimble, reliable, unencumbered by any assisted-driving gizmos, surprisingly fast around the bends even 30 years later and, for those who care about this type of things, never fails to attract a crowd.

"Directness" is perhaps its greatest quality: the steering is sharp and precise (at speed), shifting gears requires a bit of persuasion and overall all controls seem to work together in a seamless joyful, but not dull!, driving experience. Likewise the 348 will not lull the driver into overconfidence: this is a car that needs your driving skills and will not save you from yourself, as is the case with all recent automobiles that are drunk on horsepower and require all manners of safeties to keep weekend heroes from crashing. In that sense, this is perhaps the ultimate true driver's car.

My advice? Keep up with all required maintenance, be ready to tackle the odd issue that inevitably will crop up now and then (it's a 30+ year old car!) and a 348 will reward you with a unique and irreplaceable driving experience.

 

Oh man.. now that's a tough one. Ferrari 348 or Lamborghini Urraco... I'm gonna have to get back to you on that one Steve

Even though I'm not a super huge fan of the 348, I will say that I'd probably opt for having a 348 over any of the crazy modern Ferraris (anything built after the 458). Just too complex for me. So from that standpoint, yeah, the analog / simple nature of the 348 is nice if you don't mind going through it and/or paying someone else to do it. I think it were me, I'd also have the clutch done while the motor is out and check the main seals on the motor and gearbox, etc.

I still say leak down test and all that. Goes for the 348 or any car. Having documented history / service is also really helpful.

I'm curious to see what the OP finds out. Kind of curious also.. why not get a used 355 gts?

Ray

 

I loved my 80's Plymouth Turismo. Direction Connection for the win!

Ray

 

Perhaps this video would be of interest to the OP. I've always found this guy on YouTube to be a pretty clear thinking / level headed gentleman when it comes to cars and his take on things. I think he basically echos my sentiments on the subject pretty well also. I mean, for the money maybe the 348ts is okay. However, at least for me personally, I think if I bought a 348, I would soon find myself wishing I had put that money towards a used F355 instead. I loved my 355 and drove it for a number of years. I did a lot of work and upgrades on it and overall it was a joy to own. I consider it to be a more fun car to drive than the 360 in some ways (although it does require more maintenance and had many more issues to resolve). Despite some maintenance headaches, it's darn near like owning a baby 458 Italia without electronics.

The 355 is plenty fun, plenty fast, sounds like an F1 car (especially w/ a Tubi exhaust) and really is a top notch sports car, even by today's standards. No matter how hard you try - short of a flat out race prepped motor and chassis - I just don't think you're going to get that same experience out of any 348ts out there. Again, just my 2 cents. I don't mean any disrespect to 348ts owners; it's just not a car for me and I wanted to share my views for the OP... since this is supposed to be a forum where people exchange ideas and share information.

Anyway, if the OP swings back around, maybe he'll find this video helpful:

Ray

 

It might be interesting to see what your PPI showed up on that car, without disclosing any personal owner information, etc. Could give the OP some idea of what sorts of things might be needed or what to watch out for when shopping for a car of this age, which had also been sitting?

I'd be curious to see the report; don't know about anyone else.

Ray