812 Replacement Rumors

I completely agree with this. I want them to keep giving us the cars on the cutting edge of technology while at the same time retaining the cars with the rich history, heritage, and of course great sound.

 

That is the disadvantage of our capitalist system: Always MORE and MORE. Maybe at some point the system implodes...

 

Day, you have to keep context in mind.

In the 296, the drive back from my parents in-law’s house, I hit 300km/h around ten times in the span of 30 minutes (stupid, I know) and I felt like I wouldn’t mind more power.

On the other hand, when I shipped my 812 to the UK, I absolutely hated driving in central London. Single lane roads with traffic everywhere and lights every 50 meters. I was ready to park the car for the rest of the trip and just continue walking!

What I’m saying is the roads matter a lot more than people think and they can make the experience very different from one person to the next.

Most people I hear talking about cars having too much power are from the UK, while where I’m from I’ve never heard a single person say that.

 

Power to weight ratio should be the metric imo. If you prioritize acceleration and top speed you may feel differently but if you also want to stop quickly and go around corners carrying speed there is a better way. We started with street car carbon tubs over 30 years ago, there could have been a technological race for light weight solutions while incrementally increasing performances.

Different strokes for different folks but as I've said before I'd prefer turbos to hybrids because of the weight, complexity and destruction of resources. If they'd focus on synthetic fuels and saving weight we wouldn't be headed toward the hybrid/electric cliff quite so soon....

 

So true - just look at the AM Valkyrie now that the bugs are being removed. I would have this car over any hybrid 1000hp 3 ton car !!

 

I don't think it's so strange...but I'm not talking about straight lines, it's within everyone's reach to accelerate in a straight line.
I'm talking about maintaining a steady pace on winding mountain roads. The enormous power and torque, combined with the weight, impose limits.
This is not the case with the STO where everything really works in harmony.
So yes, the cars have nothing in common, but weight is definitely an issue on modern Ferraris...

 

The transmission whine is intolerable with anything less than a helmet.

 

Yes, of course, but the roads and traffic conditions here in Europe become complicated...In winding or mountainous roads, it is difficult to use most of the car's potential.
Weight, volumes, inertia, torque and power...
In October, we did the same mountain course in Pista, then with the STO.
The Pista seemed so disharmonious that it was impossible to keep up with the STO. Too much power and compromise compared to the chassis, it did not seem homogeneous.
That's why I think Ferrari makes a mistake to focus only on power to satisfy a certain part (majority) of the clientele, while weight is the X factor.
Going up from the Pista in STO and vice versa, on the same course, seemed revealing to me...

 

That's where you need the 812 with rear wheel steer, it really helps hold those mountain curves.

 

In my opinion, the road is not the right one for driving enthusiasts, hence my reference to Murray's approach, which is not subject to these marketing laws.

 

Yes, but overall the car is too heavy and too cumbersome in this situation....
For me, the ideal size was the 550

 

2900 lbs should be the maximum with 2600 lbs the goal. Unfortunately, Ferrari figured out they can sell 13K touring cars per year without really trying. At this point, paint colors matter more than performance. I hate to admit it but I am a contributor to this problem.

 

That’s great to hear, I’m planning to get an STO or 765LT by the end of the year when our local track reopens.

I test drove the STO on track and was astonished by how fun it was, such a leap from the 2015 610 I had. The ergonomics however are not as good as what Mclaren achieved.

 

You could say the same with the GT4RS and I find that quite fine

 

Sorry, I hear zero transmission whine in the GT4RS...do you have an example ?



2m50s

 

We tell them we want great sound they give us silence. We tell them we want lower weight they give us giant batteries. We tell them we want analog gauges and feel they give us video games. I don't think they listen to what we want. We get what they decide for business purposes.

I would ask for more hp from NA V12 with larger displacement and carbon chassis/body for overall weight reduction. Take the smog penalty and distribute it back to the buyer like gas guzzler. Ferrari can do this but from reports they have disbanded their V12 development capability in favor of minute forced induction hybrid ICE and full electrics with computer screens.

 

I just read that the "lightweight" Porsche 992 GT3RS is 3200 lbs. Ferrari doesn't even really have to try when even Porsche's "track car" is a porker.

 

Aston is the only car company really trying today. Ferrari makes a special version V12 (SP3) and it's 3300 lbs and 830 hp with fancy paint and over-styled body panels using a rehashed version of the same 6.5l motor in the touring car. Aston makes a race car for the road that's 2700 lbs and 1140 hp with what appears to be the most exciting V12 ever made for a road car, which curiously enough is also 6.5l (Aston clowning Ferrari for sure). Which would you rather drive? And to my eye the raw, purposeful style of the Valkyrie is much more beautiful and interesting than the disjointed and trying too hard SP3. I'm sure the SP3 will look great stunting down Rodeo Drive at 25 mph though!

@ 9:40 "we were buying so much titanium that we actually put the price of it up globally"



Maybe I should sell all my Ferraris and buy an STO and Valkyrie. The added bonus is I'll have a lot of extra storage in the garage!

 

if you don't like your ferrari, don't hesitate to sell, aston martin must have some valalalala for sale for a weight of 1600 kg. small precisions the sp3 is not of the same category as the valkery which is totally unusable on the road which is an important point for a vehicle homologated on the road

 

A 812 Superfast with lightweight options ie CF, Race seats, TDF wheels and no Front lift or JBL is an acceptable weight for a modern front engined V12 6.5L Supercar IMO.
A 812GTS with heavy fully electric seats, JBL, Lift and standard wheels is a completely different proposition in terms of weight and dynamic ability. The extra 10% weight gain over the 812SF pushes it into more of a grand tourer type of car.
I'm willing to bet the 812's replacement will be heavier again which I agree is the completely wrong direction to take, both from an environmental and dynamic POV.
All modern cars even the latest 992GT3 RS are putting on middle aged spread which is a huge pity but probably unavoidable with all the new legislation.

 

I am making a reference to sound in general not transmission whine in particular.

 

With in one car cosworth motors and other one with Mercedes engine.
we will need much more than that to fight. with a valkery who is undriveable on the normal road and an alonso who takes an occasional podium thanks to the abandonment of leclerc.
there are not many real tifosi fans left in the forum but rather antiferrarists who seek comfort in certain tasteless brands

 

The Valkyrie, although very cool, is a rarity even in the Aston Martin range. Their bread and butter are GTs with Mercedes engine that hardly can keep the pace with the little Ferrari Roma, so I wouldn´t say that "they´re the only ones pushing the boundaries".

P.S: "regular" Aston Martins are cool too, but just let´s put things into perspective.