Imagine how frustrating it would be IF the rules and regulations were made to where Mercedes and everyone else would have to keep their sidepod or sidepodless design for 3 years straight without changing it......because that's what happened in the turbo-hybrid era from 2014 thru 2016....3 years.
Don't try to bring up past events. I'm talking about at this moment. Right now. Max has the best car. Will any of his acheivements this season be lessenned because he has the best car? And will you all stick with your past thoughts that records and stats are not important?
Past events in F1, regarding a multi WDC title holder, are always compared to which is why there is no GOAT in F1. IF Max breaks the stats and records of Lewis Hamilton, then it will only be heightened because of how Max and RedBull achieved those records. Most of the F1 community though would christened Max as the so called GOAT.
Right. Understood. But just want to get clarity, so sounds like you are saying his performance won't be lessened?
Correct, his performance won't be lessened because under the rules and regulations that he achieved these stats and recorda(hypothetically speaking) were much harder when compared to say the record of Hamiltons under his rules and regulations. It's like the NBA scenario-->Do you think Michael Jordan would have scored more or less points IF he played in the era of Lebron James. The answer is MJ would have scored MORE POINTS because under the Lebron James era, referees call every stupid foul BUT under the Michael Jordan era they didn't.....at least that's one parameter of that debate to not include Jordan's playoff MVP's, playoff avg. ppg, career avg ppg, Championship rings etc.. etc.
Oooooooohhh I see!!! All a sudden Max results are valid now, even though he have the best car! Lol 1.You can't compare NBA to F1. 2. It doesn't matter how a team achieved having the best car. There are a hundred different ways in F1 history in wich past teams produced the best car. Its errelevant to research how Lotus built the best car for Clark, Mclaren for Senna, Ferrari for Schumacher, Renault/Alonso, etc. Every circumstance was different, useless to research the regulations or reasons they did it. Many teams were faster in the past. Some buy engineering, some buy rules, some buy both, some buy budget. A million reasons. Pick one. If a driver has the best car, he has the best car. Simple. No need to try to complicate it for Max. When Hamilton won buy a margin you all said he's not racing anybody, its the car. Now Max won by a margin Sunday, but now you say Max is not lessened.
F1 racers had it harder and were less safe or deadly to race in the past. There were no rules or regulations making 1 F1 team a dominant F1 team before the early 2000's like we have seen with Mercedes in the turbo-hybrid era. The rules and regulations determined Mercedes dominance. RedBull have no rules and regulations determining their outcome after 2022. Mercedes just built a crappy car for 2 years straight(if 2023 the W14 turns out to be a crappy car).
Yes he does (though we only have 1 race as evidence). There's is NOTHING stopping the other teams from building something better. Every single team has more development allowance in the windtunnel and CFD. The engines are virtually identical to each other HP wise. Nothing a team did from 2014 to 2021 was going to address the big issue: Lack of engine power to Mercedes. 2014 there was no development, after that development was only allowed in stages, but it was the same for all teams, even Mercedes: When teams brought upgrades that brought their engine closer to Mercedes, Mercedes simply learned so much from their previous spec, they'd be a step ahead again and again. In 2022 with the new fueling regs brought stability to the engines. Now it's only chassis, aero and driver.
Williams had the same engine. No championships. But to get back on topic. Max had the best car last year and so far this year. I'm still not getting a clear reason why all a sudden the results are driver based now and not the car. Why the sudden change of thinking?
On Williams 1) they had a 120 million dollar orso budget vs a 400 million dollar one. 2) AMG decides which engine modes others get to use. Engines have to be same spec, but for certain modes permission has to be sought. The engines are leased, teams don't own them outright, and parts availability is something they use as an excuse. Max didn't have the best car all of last year. Until TD39 the Ferrari was ahead. Through a combination of driver talent and team performances, Max was ahead before TD39 totally swung things RB's way. Read the posts here. We're all giving credit to the car AND Max. You're trying (very poorly) to sway the opinion that we're all saying that it's 100% Max. It's as weak an argument as your delirium defenses of LH, where no matter how often it was said that Lewis is indeed a very good driver, you were always of the opinion that what we really said was ''best car, Lewis bad''.
So in your opinion is Max accomplishments lessened because he had the best car last year and so far this year? as Lewis accomplishments was lessened?
the attitude of Alonso's car was great to see. Alonso forcing the attitude to occur, and monstering the apex speed
There's a big difference between Max's accomplishments last year vs Lewis. Lewis for the most part had zero competition from anyone. Last year the first half Max had to fight much harder for it. He earned those wins. Latter part of the season it was driving with 2 fingers up his nose. His Suzuka victory was a total standout, a total masterclass. 1 second a lap in atrocious conditions. What he did last year, despite only enjoying a dominant car for the last part of the season, was quite special in the grand scheme of things: He broke several records. Despite Lewis having several seasons with cars far more dominant across the entire season, he never managed that. Max's 1st championship was way harder fought than his 2nd one. If the first race is anything to go by, this may be one of the easiest ever if this advantage remains. No double champion had to fight as hard as Max (and Lewis) had to for the 2021 title, that's an extremely unlikely thing. Max has paid his dues driving much slower cars for the majority of his career, proving his insane talent time and time again. If Max gets the next 7 seasons driving a car this dominant he'll break all records, they'll have come very easily indeed. IF he gets proper competition like first half of 2022 or if we're lucky enough, like 2021, they'll be worth a lot more.
Lewis has won championships with competition. Max had won championships with competition. Their championships won't look the same. Max won more races in a season than Lewis. Max had the comfort of not having a WDC team mate all his career unlike Lewis. Max hadn't won with two different teams as Lewis. Lewis has won in more analog cars 15 years ago AND in the high downforce Hybrid era. Max hadn't. But Max does other things that Lewis hasn't. No champions career will look the same, its impossible. One thing is the same. Both drivers have had the best car. And you trying to say that Lewis accomplishments are lessened with the best car and Max is not. But you are doing a poor job at it. You are trying to avoid the reality. It would be less stressfull just to admit you are changing your tune now that Max is winning with the best car.
Lewis had champion teammates his entire career? Alonso - yes Kovalainen - no Button - Yes (2 to 1) Rosberg - No. Rosberg wasn't a champion until he beat Lewis then promptly left Bottas - hell no. Russell - no and beaten by him How is it a fault of Max that he didn't drive the more analog cars...he was barely out of diapers back then?! If we're applying such insane rules, then Lewis' titles are worth jack **** because he didn't have to use an h pattern. Give it up man. You wonder why so many people have you on mute, it's because you and your ilk do nothing but move the goal post constantly and consider yourself the victor. You don't even bother reading what I just said. If Max wins this year with a dominant car, yes this title is worth less than his hard fought one...that's EXACTLY what I just wrote. But for some reason your tiny brain can't even decypher that statement and you immediately blast over it with ''You say Lewis accomplishments are lessened and Max's aren't". You're nothing more than a little troll. You are incapable of forming a reasonable discussion. This place may be much more welcoming for you. LewisHamilton-44.com - The Lewis Hamilton Supporters Site Forums
It's impossible to say that Max is less deserving than Hamilton. Each WDC is deserving his title(s), won in different circumstances. Formulae, rules and regulations keep changing, so are career paths. Hamilton and Verstappen are both talented drivers, who won using the tools at their disposition better than their peers.
WAIT, WAIT we have something new! So you saying Max accomplishment is lessened in a dominant car? But not if he's in the best car? Which means Hamilton accomplishments with the best car is valid? Man your slowly coming around. Good job! Max hadn't had a WDC team mate in all of his career. I didn't mean Lewis has had a WDC team mate all years obviuosly. I see you are resorting to personal insults again, a sign that you are losing this argument and have nothing left in the tank. How is it Max fault, this and that LOL. How is Hamilton's fault he entered with with a top team? Dude you all over the place lol.
Our friend was trying to describe how Hamiltons accomplishments with the best car is diminished but Max is not. Lol
No, Hamiltons and Mercedes titles exploited the rules and regulations to their favor. Max and RedBull don't have that "luxury." And this notion that "Lewis doesn't have to prove anything........"---->Yes he does. He has to at least beat his team-mate.
