The Dark side of EVs starts to be revealed (but don't tell anybody...)

THE DO-GOODERS HEADED FOR A CONFRONTATION WITH REALITY

NPR has stirred up a hornet's nest with a documentary on the critical shortage of materials in the US needed to make batteries for EVs.
This whale fiasco started when automakers began talking about making EVs. Tesla came out of nowhere and adroitly showed how it could be done.Now many of the world's automakers are saying they will be 100% EV by 2030.
The zero emissions/ low carbon lobby was feeling pretty good about the switchover to EVs proceeding at a fast pace, conveying the impression that electric car owners are the saintly ones here, making it possible for, in the US, an emissions-free world, a veritable heaven of fresh air, thriving vegetable gardens, no downside.
Except the dirty little secret is that so far electric cars need batteries.
And the batteries use these materials:
lithium
cobalt
manganese
nickel
graphite
So what's the problem? US automakers just go out and place orders for those materials, right? Except that on that list of the US only has lithium in quantity. Oh, Idaho has cobalt but that's on US Forest Service land,so, sorry, no mining permits there (must keep the environmentalists happy). So for all the others the automakers are rushing to Russia for manganese and nickel.
But wait a minute. isn't the US supposed to cutting back on buying from Russia because of their invasion of the Ukraine?
OK let's take Chile. They have one of the materials but do we know if they use child labor or what the working conditions are? And if we buy battery materials from China, what about their enslavement of the Uyghur people in the mines?
In short, the clean air/zero emissions./carbon neutral advocates want it both ways--they want EVs but don't want to hear about who we as a nation have to deal with to buy the battery materials to make EVs.
In an article on the website (EuroGreen.com https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01) they said Researchers are "working on new battery alternatives that would replace lithium and cobalt (another harmful metal) with less toxic and more easily accessible materials. As reserves of lithium and cobalt will not meet future demand, suggested elements to focus on instead are iron and silicon.
Unlike lithium-ion batteries, iron flow batteries are also cheaper to manufacture, renewable energy veteran Rich Hossfeld told Bloomberg recently, in an article entitled 'Iron battery breakthrough could eat lithium’s lunch'' "

In a perfectly logical conclusion the article quoted Gleb Yushin, a professor at the School of Materials and Engineering at Georgia Institute of Technology, :“We call on materials scientists, engineers and funding agencies to prioritize the research and development of electrodes based on abundant elements,”

And yet US automakers have made this huge commitment to go gung-hp balls-to-the-wall on EVs, without planning in advance where they would source the battery materials (except for Tesla who bought a mine or two for one of the materials)
So EV owners could get what they want--an EV driving nation but as far as how they got the battery materials, best not to ask because the environmentalists don't want you to inquire because the deeper you dig, the more evident will be that they have blood on their hands....
Opinions anyone?

 

@bitzman
All part of the plan, you see EVs are just a distraction, the true result is far more sinister...

 

Sounds a lot like the old argument of 'What is better for the environment - a Prius or a HumVee'?
And after comparisons, the HumVee is a better, more 'green' carbon footprint.
Because the Prius battery - lithium is mined in Canada, shipped to Poland, then shipped to Russia,
then shipped to China, and finally to Japan. Each stop on the way involves refining and construction
of some kind. That didn't happen with a HumVee.

As soon as a new Administration is elected, Oil will be opened up again, and EV's will be back-burnered, AGAIN.
As they should be. They should still be built - they may fit into some folks' lifestyles, that's fine:

Is there a market for EV's? SURE! I have no argument there, if the majority of your driving is
within 50 miles of your home, they are fine, but if you want to drive 200-500-1500 miles, nope.
And how many of us are tethered to our homes?

 

Again......you guys are not following the Green New Deal narrative. You need to stop with the facts and reality checks. The world will come to an end in 12 years without the US spending trillions of tax dollars on the narrative and enriching the dem god patrons: Gore, Greta, Gates, AOC and of course The Big Guy.

So what if every EV is a disaster from an environment perspective. So what if it just shifts the energy problem to the electric grid. So what if our electric grid can't handle it. Sooner or later Unicorn tears will power everything and all your complaining with facts and figures will become meaningless.

Until then.....just quote the people who are paid to support the Green New Deal narrative. Quoting anyone else .....and you will be shunned, labeled a racist or white supremist.

 

They should be built-

As movie props-
And for monster trucks to smash-

Otherwise they're flippin useless

 

I DID say they should be built.
And as I said, I can see a use for them, but then again, a golf cart would work fine for
most people, too, and if they were street legal, I'd own a couple.
(and yes, I saw your joke.... LOL)

 

Same original article later posted on **********.com website with a few good comments (though not as funny as those on FC)
https://**********.com/2023/02/opinion-a-dose-of-reality-for-the-electric-vehicle-business.html

 

Does anyone really thing the Green lovers really care about any of this,Greta and Al will wipe their bloody hands on the cloth seats of their Leafs and Volts as they rake in more Millions.

 

All i know is being in manufacturing there is always a new battery tech coming but it never seems to come out

 

Yep. All part of the bigger plan. Ate more than your weekly allowance of meat? Sorry, card will be declined. Please remove meat items and carry on. Bought more than your weekly allotment of petrol (or gas for you americans)? Card declined. Better get walking.

Think you can go off the grid and go full solar, borehole water etc? Governments' all seeing eye will catch you and you will be punished, card won't work until you reconnect yourself to the grid and supply everyone with your grid. Good luck escaping as well...can't buy petrol, so can't drive somewhere else. EV? Where and how will you charge it up with your cards in lockdown?

Next 15 years will be interesting/scary. Will there be private citizens and public servants...serving the public, or will it only be public citizens serving the private government? The latter certainly isn't a place I want to be part of.

 

but... but... but... Al Gore said the world would come to an end, and the USA would crumble
in 20 years - he said that in about 1995, so what happened?

Or perhaps he meant 30 years?

 

Again you are presenting facts. What Al Gore did was invent the Internet and inspire the entire planet to focus on the weather to enrich himself which is soooooo inspirational.

 

Is Gore's home in Tenneessee still the single largest home carbon footprint in the entire state?
It was at one time.....

 

You mean his eco friendly Estate?

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look at the beautiful solar panels photoshopped on the roof, endless trees all paid for by people who believe he actually cares about them.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login some newcmers to the Climate Wars may not know who Greta is. A teenager from scandavania when she started cimate change politicing, she'd be in her mid-20s now, Maybe men will distrct her. I wonder if I am the only one who gets creeped out by this picture of her with ol' Joe...






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Please tell me you know that is a fake Photoshop.

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I got suckered. There was a hint of scandel when george was photographed lately in yhe compay of an 18 year old but it was his grandkid

 

Haha, that is a great photoshop. Unfortunately the real photos aren't much better.

 

Porsche Taycan

 

Something like 95% of all personal vehicle trips are under 50 miles, so being "tethered to home" still covers one hell of a lot of cars.
Our BMW I3 has done double the miles over the last 5 years vs our other main vehicle, an old Town and Country minivan. Mostly the wife commuting ~20 miles per day. We've charged outside the house only a couple of times out of necessity.
Still use the van for roadtrips to New Orleans or family >150 miles away but as charging infrastructure continues to improve I plan to replace the van with an EV (likely with a VW bus or Canoo) in the next 2-3 years and be full electric, except for the fun cars and Honda pressure washer.
For daily driving (or long distance if fast chargers are on route) EVs simply spank ICEs. Quieter, smoother (or snappier, you chose), cheaper to fuel and maintain. Can also power the house (or grid) in power outages or peak demand scenarios when not being used.
Buying "enough" battery would go a long way to stretching the materials needed for EVs, and improving efficiency due to lower vehicle weight.
But of course we think we need dual motors, 0-60 in <4 seconds, and >100kwhr battery packs to take the kids to schools or make a Costco run....
Upside is batteries aren't thrown out when they eventually degrade ~20%. Can re-purpose them for power banks to supplement the grid.

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Distribution of Trips by Distance: National, State, and County level | Bureau of Transportation Statistics (bts.gov)

 

Good for you, bad for the 40%+ of the population that has no overnight charging ability...

 

Not saying it's false, but where'd you get that stat?

At least here in Houston more and more apt buildings have EV chargers, also offices, strip malls, hospitals, all Walmarts, even Bucees gas stations.

TX is the "Green Energy State" after all

US Building code for all new homes to be wired for 240V/40A outlet in garage is pending (yeah good luck getting through the House... unless enough "southern" states have EV related jobs...), TX's 4th largest city already requires it: https://environmentamerica.org/texas/updates/new-homes-in-san-antonio-to-be-electric-vehicle-ready/

 

the SATX story is pretty pointless as most single family homes already have at least one 240v outlet anyway, so having another, whatever, that does nothing for those living in non-single family homes...the news story is also totally ridiculous in that it mentions ozone action days as the majority of those occur when winds are from the East or are completely calm and not much to do with the traffic, more ozone from East Texas blows in (big forests)...action day results

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-01/documents/tylerplan.pdf

from link above:
When winds are calm and the atmosphere is stable, emitted precursors do not disperse and are available for ozone formation. On the other hand, if the atmosphere is unstable and winds are brisk, emitted pollutants are transported away from the area so that ozone does not build up.


For apartments with ev chargers, two or more for each unit? otherwise, pointless

https://www.statista.com/statistics/798113/share-of-population-living-apartments-by-state-usa/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-958-january-2-2017-sixty-three-percent-all-housing-units-have-garage-or-carport

from link above:
According to the newly released 2015 American Housing Survey, 63% of all occupied housing units have a garage or carport. Garages and carports often {note: but not all...} have access to electricity for parked vehicles, so these data are important for electric vehicle market analysis.


And then, when you consider the number of older homes with less than 200amp electric service, they can only "trickle" charge, so it would take days to charge

nonetheless, when you consider the number of people who can afford to buy and EV, then nearly all have access to "decent" overnight charging, because it is a rich person's game this EV ownership business...

point being, EVs will never be the dominate vehicle choice, can't be for numerous reasons, and will be more or less completely useless for a large portion of the population without the ability to consistently re-charge overnight

 

What do you mean by "older homes with less than 200Amp electric service" can only trickle charge?
A 240V/24A charger is all you need, as long as you don't have some ridiculous 150kwhr battery to fully charge every night.

Meanwhile, today in TX electricity generated from wind and solar covered over 1/2 the total demand. Nice!

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https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards

 

I look at those charts and see 'nightmare' as none of that generation is stable or really predictable, and the grid operations are constantly being adjusted to account that that, really, a nightmare to manage.

Ok, so, maybe we do not think alike, solar+wind on a weak demand day are essentially useless when neither sun nor wind are available such as after 20 (8pm), guess it's lights out because demand was actually over 42,000MW at 8pm and solar+wind contributed about 14%, you see, solar+wind is a complete and utter JOKE because actual power generation must continually be online (or near-online such as peaker plants) to ensure the grid can actually function...it would be 100% better if both solar and wind were to disappear from being included in grid generation and leave it where it works best, in remote, niche uses.

As for less than 200A, I guess if you do not have an AC, electric appliances, etc, sure, you could dedicate your power to charging ONE car, but, pointless...many households have more than 1 car, what then? Want to run your AC? Cook dinner? Wash/Dry clothes? Turn on anything else? Do you have a swimming pool?

More here:

https://www.kuhlmanelectricalservices.com/will-my-electrical-panel-support-my-ev-charger/

some from link above:
There are a number of factors that go into this including:

• Existing service size – 100amp, 200amp, bigger?
• What charge rate do I need?
• Other electrical loads in the home. Do I have central air condition, electric range, electric dryer etc?

Let’s start with the existing service. If you are unlucky enough to have an old 60amp electrical service to your house or condo, there is pretty much a zero chance of any kind of EV charger being installed. You will have to explore a service / electrical panel upgrade.

If you have a 100amp electrical service and ALL electrical appliances including a central air conditioning. It’s unlikely you will be able to install an EV charger.

If you have a 100amp electrical service and limited electrical appliances (Gas cooking, gas water heater, no central air conditioning, etc) you will be able to have an EV charger installed. It might not be at the maximum charge rate, but it should still be possible at a lower speed / amperage.

If you are lucky enough to have a 200amp electrical service, you should be good to go. However, if your house is huge with all electrical appliances and multiple central air conditioners it might be close! [NOTE: and if you want to co-charge more than one EV at a time...well, no, look for 400amp service or more]