New MANUAL TRANSMISSION Ferraris-Doug Demuro

Ferrari could care less about what anyone thinks. Besides, who needs a gearbox with an EV?


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Doug is spot on. I’ve never understood why Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini have not offered special edition cars with a manual transmission or an option on their current cars for an additional 75 and $100,000 for manual transmission. They clearly would sell a significant number of those. The reality is that probably 10% of all Ferrari owners track their cars, so the F1 transmission is is really important to those drivers.

 

Since all Ferrari cares about is money, why dont they start to build affordable cars that the masses could buy, then they would really fill their coffers with the kind of money Toyota takes in. I think that is a fair question.

Big G

 

Um, because Ferrari is not Toyota?

And last I checked, Ferrari actually makes more money (based on operating margins) than Toyota. At least based on operating margins.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/automakers-ranked-by-operating-margin/

 

Because the time/expense to invest, test, and build a MT (or any major component of a car) is expensive (even for someone like RACE) and the only way to recoup those R&D costs is scale -- i.e., by selling multiple units and copies.

Limited production cars, or heritage editions, are usually parts bin specials, cobbled together from different product lines or, more often than not, just sticker packages.

For example with Ferrari:
J50 = 488 with more hp
F60 America = Convertible F12, with fancy bodywork and panels

 

Gang - if you watch to the end of his video, he makes a plausible argument for how to justify the design cost of the MT.

The other important point he makes is that Ferrari is a public company now - there's MONEY ON THE TABLE - for MT cars and Porsche is making it.

I don't see a downside to adding the option, so somebody point it out to me!

Kevin

 

Well, on Autotrader doing a search for 2023 Porsche for sale shows 17 out of 491 are offered with manual transmission. That is 3.5% , one tenth of what it was a couple decades ago and it was less than 5% when I bought my stick shift Porsche in 2015. Once the diehard crowd buys the last hurrah cars, the demand seems likely to fall even further. I just don't enjoy driving my no-synchro 1930 Ford Model A in stop and go rush hour any more, the Cali T in auto mode (I call it Buick mode) is more appropriate for most of my driving.

 

Entertaining and very Demuro-ed. While Ferrari likely doesn't need financial advice, I think he is spot on. They would sell as fast as they can be ordered.

Forget track performance, any limited edition cars would likely sit in a collection anyways, so who cares about performance.

Actually thats a really good argument against it, from Ferrari standpoint... why bother with product support, when you can have EAG or other companies beginning to develop 3 pedal swaps, once they become late model cars.

We have 3 of our 4 vehicles in the family still Manual 3 pedal cars (456, M3, F-150) and both my wife and I love driving them all for that reason. It is frustrating that I really cant find a loaded 3 pedal car anymore that will haul the family and stuff. Well at least my options are limited

 

Porsche is on another scale than Ferrari, so a low percentage of manual cars accounts for a lot more than would the same percentage for Ferrari (making it easier for Porsche to recoup the investment).
Besides, I also suspect the power race Ferrari is in makes more and more difficult to design a manual gearbox able to cope.
Finally, outside of the US (which have been clogged by crappy automatic cars for decades) the religious worship of manual gearboxes is not really taking off (no matter how strong marketing attempts could be); in Europe most modest cars still have manual gearboxes - the change is driven by hybrid and electric powertrains.
For performance cars, people can enjoy manual gearboxes where they belong - in outdated cars.

 

The 991.2 take level for MT GT3s was 70%, so there is a path to make money and further establish a reputation as a driver’s car.

But that is Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and McLaren don’t care about that market, they are about luxury branding to the Uber wealthy.

While I and my middle class income could have afforded a new 458 or Huracan 580-2 in the day, prices have exploded to the point where I don’t even bother looking.

The only other car that could make a MT work in a car that is affordable is the Corvette. They are the ones that are missing the boat by not offering one.

 

I think you are off a zero….more like 1% track their cars more than a parade lap.

 

We are a 4 out of 6 MT family

 

So far, the Frankenstein conversion market has been about cars that had MT options to begin with. What happens when people want to convert F8s?

 

Very true, and I No idea what a future solution is.... Doug's video puts into media lots of thoughts many people have had, I assume Ferrari has already had this conversation internally and likely with some of their high end and exclusive customers. If their silence on the matter is any answer, then I guess its going to fall on the aftermaket developers to create a solution.

Ferrari has never really used any aftermarket tuners (RUF, Hartge, Saleen, Alpina, AMG, etc) nor have really needed to, but perhaps thats the path for a 3 pedal car from a current model is to simply outsource it *officially*.

But still seems like that conversation has probably already happened.

 

Ferrari tried that. 575, California and 599 were available as manual transmission cars. The number sold was smaller than a rounding error. The demand for manual transmissions is not in the line at the dealer door with checkbook in hand. The demand for MT cars is in the used market and Ferrari has no need to cater to them.

I have heard stories for the last 20 years of all the marketing mistakes Ferrari has made yet production goes up, up, up, prices go up, up, up, and the line out the door and down the street gets longer and longer. If that is an indicator of poor marketing, poor product planning and poor customer research the rest of the auto industry should be doing so badly.

I don't care for the cars they make, you don't care for the cars they make, guess what, they are not building them for us and they are doing very well building them for the people who are actually buying cars.

 

Never needed one but they had huge need for a custom paint and upholstery house which they had right there in Maranello. It was such a huge and profitable success that like Mercedes with AMG, Ferrari just bought the business.

 

I think he is a clueless idiot devoid of historical knowledge.
A. Ferrari built a great number of full on automatic cars. A large majority of 400, 412 and 456 models had full on automatics.
B. Mondial t Valeo was in no way an automatic. It had zero ability to shift itself.
C. He is spot on. Everyone hated the 355 F1. Ferrari predicted 30% of 355 orders would be F1. In its year of introduction over 60% percent of sales were F1 and it grew every year.
Thats how much people hated it.
F1 transmissions in subsequent models grew in market share every year until manual transmission cars accounted for single digit percentage of production.
The customers spoke. Ferrari listened. Sales and profits show it.

 

Very sad, but very true.
They've already got the money from the passion of the enthusiasts and history who got them where they are now.

 

I can think of nothing, not one single thing that has not changed in the last 70 years. Can you?

I know people that still wish cars had a hand crank in the front and a timing lever on the column and they have sworn an oath not to ever buy a new car without them.

 

I don't think that hand-crank starting was ever on the "enjoyable engagement" list.

 

Neither was dead batteries. Hand crank cars left no one stranded because of a dead battery.

Someone can make the case for wanting to keep every single abandoned technology in the history of man. Manual transmissions are just one more.
People need to quit stomping their feet and get over it. There are still plenty of manual transmission cars in the world. Get one of those. I told my other half a few years ago any car we ever buy has already been made. BFD. Does not by any stretch of the imagination mean they are wrong for not making the car I want. Their duty is to stock holders and the stock holders are happy.

 

He's not arguing for a reintroduction of manual transmissions to regular production cars. A limited number special edition that everyone knew was only produced in manual would sell for crazy premiums as he suggests. Those who buy them for the driver engagement and fun factor would have a new manual Ferrari and those who buy them for the status would be able to tell people they're special enough and hairy-chested enough to drive a manual only limited edition current production Ferrari.

Reintroduction of manual as an option on other models would mean anyone could have a manual if they wanted, and that would negate the exclusivity. People want what is rare and that other people can't had, particularly if they're buying it to show the car off for clicks on Instagram, YouTube, etc.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

And Ferrari has not thought of that? Ferrari is building (and selling) every single car their factory is capable of. They have a department dreaming up special cars for special clients. They do whatever those clients want. Go order one. If that group is not building cars as you suggest, guess what? They are not being ordered.

I have a good friend who has a wherehouse full of special, one off Ferraris. He gets what he wants and is willing to pay for and not one, including the FXX has a manual transmission. Just not on his list. He like the others wants the latest and greatest, not a retro rod.