New MANUAL TRANSMISSION Ferraris-Doug Demuro

I am not aware of any DCT that can go 200 mph in first gear. If you google DCT there's some great videos that explain how they differ from automatic transmissions. The first thing you'll notice when you drive a DCT as opposed to an automatic is that there is no torque loss. And you can pinpoint exactly where you want the tach. If you track DCT extensively you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

They are the best iteration of the automatic transmission ever, and I’d like to own one sometime…..

 

Yes, but good luck explaining the difference. If a Ferrari F8 has an ‘A’ button that puts the gearbox in an automatic mode, it’s the same as a Cadillac Coupe Deville.


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The following stat surprised me quite frankly:
The take rate for Manual Mustang is currently at 10%

New exotic owners then trend lower. Around 5% (will continue to decrease as more recent generations age in.) Hate what you want, I know dealers about the 'seal' the deal on C7, but the problem is what they got in the lobby was a manual - no dice. (4 out of 5 NEW Corvette owners preferred DCT.)

But then I look at Porsche, where the take rate is 25%-50%

So what is the disconnect here? The average new Porsche Boxster ($60K) buyer is just a different type of enthusiast than an average new Ferrari buyer ($300K.)

If Ferrari/Mclaren/Lambo offered stick on their new cars, the take rate would be, once again, 5%.

The high take rate for Porsche manuals offered are also the limited edition GT cars (I'm looking for the regular Carrera take rate), which have already baked in a 'collector' aspect. How many of these 'manual' purchases are more for equity than actual 'want?'
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I love Doug Demuro, and I, of course, agree with his thesis. If Ferrari would make limited edition manuals, they would sell like hotcakes but would be out of reach for mere mortals like me.

But for their relatively pedestrian Roma?

Well, what was it? Only two to ten (depending on how you ask) people ordered original California with stick out of thousands sold?

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The chest pumping aspect is a big part of stick worship, some folks treat stick as some sort of badge of hardcoreness ..... like it's 'difficult' to drive a stick. I taught my wife in 2 hours back in the day. Big Deal. Hills for the amateur? That's what the handbrake cheat is for.

I've learned to appreciate all transmissions and feel each has a place/time.

I've even come around the modern CVTs. Even Doug Demuro is starting to appreciate the antagonistic F1 over the DCT.

The feel of flawlessly executing a perfect heel-toe downshift on the track with the clickety-clack gated is exhilarating; that said= Let's not kid ourselves - most new Ferrari owners are spending time on a very different kind of 'course,' the golf kind.

 

Ferrari doesn’t need or want your order. They aren’t leaning on anyone to buy DCT - they’re selling everything they can build.

And don’t ask for carburetors either.


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That's worked-out pretty well for both sides for the 20ish years since that set of incidences, and you are correct - they didn't miss my order at all.
I've kept myself much more entertained by vintage "cars of character"..... including a couple with carbs. I consider the (almost) lack of computers a nice, bonus, too.

 

Lack popularity of final gen ferrari manuals was long ago and has little to do with today. No one wanted Cali stick in 09 because dct was brand new tech. Totally different world now.

Ferrari doesn't need sell stick to sell more cars or appeal to other buyers. They should only sell stick to make more money.

If they make 500 icona models, they can easily charge extra $500k for stick on them. Will sell out instantly. That's quarter billion for next to nothing. Shareholders should demand it.

 

They already make those. Its called a Honda.

 

My understanding is that the current conversion business is at best for a few dozens cars for a few tens of thousands dollars each - and so far no one is shoehorning a traditional gearbox in a DCT equipped car.
So to extrapolate the noise about these conversions (which are basically the removal of the automation from manual gearboxes) into a great business case may be dubious.

 

Incremental change at best. I am unaware of any automatic that goes 200 in first and I have spent a lot of time at Bonneville with a great many cars going over 200.Torque loss in automatics is dramatically lower than at any time in their history and in fact in higher gears many have a clutch that takes the torque converter out of the equation and operates at no loss of torque so that is an incorrect statement.
The simple fact is there is no human control needed for the clutch or changing of the gears which covers the definition of "Automatic" as it pertains to automotive transmissions.

And in any event this is in now way related to the conversation at hand. There is another thread somewhere debating the topic. Go join them

 

converting a 430 f1 to stick has nothing to do with multimillion dollar icona cars

 

... and that's the point

 

There are new buyers and there are used Ferrari buyers.

New buyers don't want a stick. I wonder how many CAN drive a stick (excluding the old guys whose back hurts them when they get in and out of the car)... If a Ferrari buyer wants to drive a manual car.. they'll buy a 360, 430 or 355. And have their new DCT Ferrari on the other side of the garage.

Hybrid drivetrain algorithms favor flappy paddles. Manual the manual transmission is dead on new cars and it doesn't make sense to have it monetarily on a special edition car. There is maintenance and support of the transmission that also needs to be factored in addition to the parts availability. Much easier to have DCT transmissions to maintain in the shop from a logistics and tools standpoint.

 

I think Ferrari understands the business cycle, but Doug is only thinking about right now. Yes there is unmet demand for manual Ferraris that could produce more profit, but if things change and Ferrari is suddenly unable to sell all of its cars as automatics, they could switch some of their capacity to manuals rather than a costly capacity increase that goes idle in a downturn.

VAG can easily shift some of their capacity to less expensive models/makes in a downturn, but it’s not an option for Ferrari without sacrificing their brand image.

 

They pretty much already tossed that image on the dumpster fire a couple of years ago.
The Ferrari brand has 'evolved'

 

I’m of the same mind. Loved my 328, love my Porsche 964, etc. My wish list is all pre-1990. Anyone who wants a three-pedal manual with carbs has decades of classics to choose from.


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I would recommend checking out youtube as the differences are really fascinating. Also go track your coupe deville and an F8. You'll see the difference in the transmissions right away!

 

The primary reason I got my computer-laden Cayman S was to make Jen and my Mom happy that I had something with modern crash benefits, over another vintage car. You factored into my decision, too.
FERRARI VS TURBO

I wish the F355 was missing its computers, too. Seriously - computers for the steering? For the AC? For the___?

 

You're right that you can switch DCT into a mode wherein it shifts itself. But I was responding to a post that was stating automatic transmissions are the same as DCT. This is simply not true on a mechanical level. I'm glad to hear to torque loss is getting lower but its still there. You also can't pinpoint the tac in an automotive like you can in a DCT.

This is directly related to the topic as I was giving my opinion on why I do not care for stick shifts in modern cars but love them in old ones. I'll check out the other threads you mention but it's generally not helpful to say go somewhere else to someone that is debating the topic at hand. It's ok to disagree!

 

Hey, now!!! - Getting that 3-2 downshift paddlepull is one of the most satisfying bits of driving.
It's a serious skill to master, and quite the feeling to get it right.

 

I agree. I think that's more an American thing than anything else since automatic is prevalent.

In most other countries every grandma know how to drive a manual car and I don't think they feel really badass about something so simple as shifting gears

 

Folks, all the most expensive Ferraris sold in the world over the last decades, owned by the most discerning and monied collectors, who can buy what they like, have only one kind of transmission.

They are all manual/stick cars. GTOs, Cali spiders, MMS, LMs, MMs, 335s, GTB Speciales, NART Spiders, and on and on.

The richest people who can buy what they like and know what they are buying are paying the most for stick cars. These cars cost a multiple of a bespoked FXX or similar. You could buy 15 or 20 or more LaFerraris for the price of one of these manual transmission cars.

Evidently there is a market there.

And anyone who doubts whether a manual can make a brilliant 2023 performance car hasn’t driven a 992 GT3 manual. Whups the butt of most anything out there. And I am a Ferrari man, not a Porsche fanboy.

 

Just one datapoint. Mastering a 2nd to 3rd upshift on a Maranello without dipping the hood is priceless. When I'm old and gray and they are wheeling me toward the dumpster, I'll still remember that.

 

No, when it matters torque loss is gone. You are just revealing a serious lack of understanding of both modern automatics as well as the history of automatics. You are locked into a picture of one particular type. It is a far more involved history.

 

I would disagree vehemently the attraction to a GTO, MM, LM or any cars of their ilk is the manual transmission. If it were that simple Mustangs and Cameros with a clutch pedal would be worth millions.
You are usually serious. This post adds nothing to a mostly interesting conversation.