New MANUAL TRANSMISSION Ferraris-Doug Demuro

As a (former) Lotus owner - you cracked me up!

And, while I think MT would be a great option for Ferrari, why am I a "former" Lotus owner? Because I got tired of rowing the boat and am now shopping for a Ferrari with AT.

Kevin

 

My point was DCT is mechanically different than a fully automatic. There's a reason why Ferraris have DCT and Cadillac's have automatics. I would go into the history but then I would be off topic and asked to leave!

 

Both my mother and my gf know how to drive manuals. Neither know how to drive one properly fast. They can get from A to B and that’s about it.

There’s nothing badass about tapping paddles that’s for sure.

To each their own of course. Some people buy cars for status, some buy wanting the latest and greatest, and some buy cars they want a closer driving connection with.

People buy manual cars for connection, not for status.

 

I get that.....after rowing through Houston traffic for 25 years, I had to go automatic recently for the daily grind.

 

Some just buy manuals because it's the cheapest option and easy to drive ( rest of the world )

 

I was shop foreman in a Lotus dealer. You could not give me one of those toilets.

 

Cheapest sure. Easy? Perhaps once accustomed to. Easy to drive fast? Hardly.

We are discussing sports cars correct? I assume we’re not debating manual daily sedans and SUVs.

 

And the point you keep missing because of your lack of knowledge of automatics is, not really. Most automatics are mostly hydraulically operated. some have been all mechanical, some compressed air. Know your subject.

Who cares if it is a CVT, Hydromatic, Powerglide or a DKG. The definition is a transmission requiring no driver input to change forward gears. It makes zero difference how that is achieved.

 

LOL, I do remember my boss had a Espirit he used to brag on......took me for a ride, and I thought it was the absolutely worst built car I had ever been in. The Russian Ladas we used to run around in for work in the 90s were better cars.

But looks like the new one has promise, Harry Metcalfe likes his and that is a good recommendation for me.

 

Bringing up a rubber band CVT isn't helping the argument....LOL

 

Those were a great concept… but even Audi couldn’t execute it. I test drove an A4 when CVT was new, and it ruined what was otherwise a decent car.


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I assume we’re talking about real manuals, before the synchros dumbed it down…


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The Lotus Emira comes to mind. I think they nailed it right going with a Toyota engine.

 

The case is easier to make with "apples to apples" examples :


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Sentiment in 2005 regarding manual vs paddle is different from today’s. When paddle was the latest and greatest, people naturally gravitated towards it because it was the “new” thing. Now that we’ve had 2 decades of exposure, most now more or less know what they really like and want. If 5-10% of F430 were ordered in manual in 2005, that number would be at least 30% today. If that’s not a big enough market, I don’t know what is.


Market share has been lost to Porsche because Ferrari does not offer a high enough performance manual sports car. I contemplated a manual 991.2 GT3 and I’m not even into 911’s. The target market is nearly identical - people who can afford higher-end sports cars.

I get it, Ferrari sells cars faster than they can make them. Perhaps this is a production capability limitation and they must optimally choose what to build, not necessarily a lack of demand.

 

Surprisingly well reasoned post

 

Ferrari needs to build a modern 355. A stripped down no nonsense sports car with a true non assisted (a la Porsche) manual gearbox.

It should have an actual push button start ON THE DASH, that never replaceable open gate shifter with the "slink slink" noise we all love. ANALONG jewel like gauges.. a high reving NA V8. Should be no bigger then the current 296..think Lotus Elise..but better. That car would sell and if handled right.. would be an instant classic.

 

The less thoughtful argument says, “hey, Ferrari sells 100% of what they produce at a great profit margin” without realizing that the phrase could very well be, “my God, Ferrari sells our 100% of what they produce at an ABSURD profit margin.”

Their production constraint on a per vehicle basis is not actually as big of a part of this discussion as some would think.

 

Exactly, and I would even add to the case (as Porsche and GMA are doing), if I were to buy new, the manual car doesn't need 800 HP, anything less then 625 is fine, as long as the weight is very low. I think if Ferrari would make a limited run of F50 proportions with a manual, lightweight (I means serious, sub McLaren F1 lightness), naturally aspirated, more then 8.5k rpm revving monster that would remind us of McLaren F1, F50, Carrera GT etc they could charge 1M+ USD easily. Especially if they would add a unique style engine like a V10. Like the aforementioned cars it has to be a road car that could be used on the track, not a track focussed car. I mean, see how much Gordon Murray is asking for his T50 and T33, is what Doug's saying, that revenue could be in Ferrari's pocket too.

 

So Ferrari, which has never sold as many cars, has lost market share to Porsche, for not proposing manual transmissions...
I think it would be the same to say, Porsche had lost market share to Singer for not proposing air-cooled 911 anymore.

 

Ferrari’s value is in its brand/image even more than its production count. There is always risk to any business’s brand/image when it completely ignores what a meaningful percentage of its customers really, really want. Porsche figured this out, Ferrari should too.

 

No no no, as evidenced by the fact that they FINALLY gave the world what it didn’t even know it needed:

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As much as those of us who enjoy involved driving (vs LA video gaming) would appreciate such an effort, thing like this would dilute the brand away from the Purosang's new SUV direction.

 

Overall, I don't think the MT market is as big in the real world as it is in chat rooms! Roughly 1 sale/week on BaT? Porsche sell more cars in a month than Ferrari sells in a year.

It would be funny if the MT option cost more than the DC!

If they did decide to offer one, I think it should be more of a real sports car (AKA a retro 250 SWB) than a high performance car. They are completely different in my mind. A sports car does not have to set a new performance benchmark, it just has to be cool and fun to drive.

 

Like a class exercise where the challenge is who can come up with the worst result, only rule is you must use this brand on every detail.. We have a winner!