New MANUAL TRANSMISSION Ferraris-Doug Demuro

How do they "demand outright performance" from the transmission but not the rest of the car?

Yes I NEED to save milliseconds on a shift but will also take leather everywhere, sound deadening, A/C, Nav, stereo system, power seats, hell power everything, maybe a convertible, what else can I weigh this thing down with.

 

You might want to tell the government that because they do not agree. F1 is an automatic and is required to be tested separately.

 

Ferrari has offered traditional automatics in several cars and was able to do that easily, even when it was a much smaller company, that sold far fewer cars, and that didn't fully leverage its brand to deepen its pockets even further like it does today.

Offering a traditional automatic requires a lot of engineering and development (different rations, different number of gears, totally different transmission design, potentially different weight distribution and transmission location, etc) and modification (e.g. different impact to suspension) because the traditional automatic is different from the manual in every way from a design and driving perspective.

Offering two flavors of a manual transmission, that drives virtually identically, does not requite a lot of engineering or development or modification because it essentially the same transmission with variations how its operated.

The EPA mileage test is driving a total of 21 miles on an automated dynomometer. I think Ferrari can swing it.

 

Two remarks on this:
1) Ferrari sourced its auto box from GM, so the engineering effort was limited
2) current Ferrari have DCT, which would be more problematic to convert to manual - a DCT is like a double sequential transmission, nothing like the old F1 system that was just an add-on on top of the traditional mechanical gearbox.

 

I believe that todays Ferrari owners are more interested in status rather than performance. It does not matter what the performance is, the cars will sell .

G

 

Row Your Ohms: Toyota (!) Wants To Save Manual Transmissions for EVs

 

This?

or this?

or how about this?

 

The other problem with wanting manuals, is Ferrari isnt interested in selling as many cars as possible. Their priority is to be the most technologically advanced manufacturer, and manuals, as much as I and many of you love them, are technological dinosaurs.

Ferrari doesnt want to be associated with old technology.

At least not outside of custom/bespoke one-offs to the most well heeled.

 

A 458 Speciale was recently converted to manual by Modificata. Don’t ask me how it was done, but it was done.

 

Take rate of manuals for all brands as reported by autoweek
https://www.autoweek.com/news/technology/a40800136/subaru-porsche-manual-transmission-take-rates/

Porsche is currently at 25% for the 911.

Honest question, in 10 years when Gen Alpha/Z is in the market, do you think that number will go up or down?

answer that and you will have answered the question of this thread.

 

It’s forreal, but I still think it’s in testing phases working out kinks.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnhYfuir9wG/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

 

1) There is still a LOT of engineering to adopt a third-party automatic because everything about the transmission and the way it operates is different.

2) Correct, that's why I clarified that early Ferrari F1 versions were identical. Even with the modern versions though, the gear ratios would be the exact same and large chunks of the existing transmission could very likely be leveraged. Everything else about the way the transmission operates and drive would be virtually identical, so it would require very, very few design changes other than adding a stickshift and clutch pedal.

Offering an automatic, even an outsourced one, is way more difficult than offering a manual version of an F1. Ferrari has offered automatics, producing a manual version of F1 is a walk in the park comparatively.

 

It sure does not seem that way, with all these different models coming out one after the other, one would think just the opposite. With that being said, the quality is suffering, you know, with these recalls that are popping up.

G

 

It would be nice if Ferrari would come out with a model that is not so high tech, with all the insane electronics, nannies, and motors that build revs so fast, that You Tube has many videos of idiots crashing Ferraris on a daily basis because they have no clue on how powerful and ferocious these cars really are. They wont, why, its real simple, 99 % of new Ferrari owners are not drivers, they buy for the status. There is no need to cater to a crowd that does not exist, which has also been mentioned here prior. I live in a place where Ferrari sells more cars than anywhere else in the world, I see them everyday, and I see the people who are behind the wheel, and I say to myself, good grief , and I will leave it at that....( present company excluded )

Big G

 

Actually, F1 is having sort of a resurgence, ironically enough by the very person we're discussing in this thread - Doug Demuro himself has said he prefers F1 over DCT in some cars.\
(start at 22:00)


I've talked to many folks that echo Doug's exact sentiments. After all, why not? It's largely a subjective element we're discussing here.

That doesn't affect the no-sale for the car in the lobby available to purchase NOW because Buffy can't drive stick.

The public did vote at Ferrari

also at Lamborghini

Maurizio Reggiani was pestered (as many here would love to do) about the absence of a manual option on the new Hurcan. Reggiani began to explain how fewer than five percent of Gallardo owners ticked the manual ‘box option when CEO Stephen Winkelmann jumped in.

Apparently, that five percent statistic is out of date. In fact close to zero percent of Gallardos were ordered in manual," Winkelmann confirmed. In fact, orders for manual Gallardos became such a rare event, that when one did come in, engineers would contact the dealership to double check the form was correct.

Don't let the high values of manual Porsche fool you into what the new Ferrari buyers 'actually' want.

 

Nearly none of which applies to my correction of your incorrect statement.

But thanks for all the inconsequential BS.

 

What always makes me smile about threads like this, is I always wonder how much of it is flashing your 'hard core' card by lamenting the end of "manual" versus actually caring?

Yes, I know the skill required to drive a stick is somewhere between being a Fighter Pilot and an Astronaut, so there's that.
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It's just that the cheapest Mustang (we're talking enthusiasts here right?) is 9 out of 10 with an automatic transmission, which makes me go hmmm...

 

I actually care and will never own a sports car without a manual trans. (Unless for a short while while I collected parts to convert it to manual.)

 

It's not by chance that the conversions are made on Ferrari equipped with F1-system and not with DCT - I still think transforming a DCT to manual would be far from obvious (probably it would be simpler to completely replace the gearbox - and I think that's what is investigated by some, but for Ferrari it would mean having a new gearbox designed).

Ferrari are not the only ones to look at business cases, the fact is that people doing conversions do it on old cars which were offered with the F1-system as an option (and of which the numbers of manual versions were limited, making up a rarity appeal).
If there was a clear business case for transforming new cars to manual ones, some people would probably take the opportunity.

 

Exactly which part of certifying it would be onerous?

Everything I said in that post is relevant. The difficult and expensive part is if you have a significant variation to a model that renders all of the prior certification irrelevant, and then you have to re-engineer the car and tailor it to meeting those certifications again.

When the car is almost literally identical in every way, no such re-engineering of the car design is needed.

The EPA test is a 21-mile automated dynamometer run.

 

If I could afford a modern Ferrari with an F1 gearbox, at this point , since I will always keep my 328 , I would not have a problem with driving it. I have since changed my mind when it comes to F1 Ferraris , I love the 488 and would love to own one, even more than I think a front mounted V12 with a manual box .

Big G

 

I just find it amusing how many cannot cope with change. I have many preferences but I am also quite willing to accept I am a small minority that the world is just not going to cater to.

 

"In the current Mustang, approximately 10 percent of EcoBoost customers opt for a manual transmission compared to approximately 40 percent for the 5.0-liter V8," Ford told The Drive.”



What’s more comparable to a Ferrari? A GT3 (70% take) or an Ecoboost Mustang (10% take)?

 

Hence I said "cheapest" Mustang. My point when over your head. If you're claiming new Ferrari owners are more likely to take a stick then the general population, then you've got a point. All the data on this exact thread has been quite the opposite.

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