they just aren't selling, even at slightly reduced prices
Well Romans would disagree with you atm.. sold 2 Assetto Fiorano in a week. Heard another 2 AF sold through Ferrari Dealer, 1 advertised 1 off market.. Tweet— Twitter API (@user) date Tweet— Twitter API (@user) date
The UK market is without any notable connection to the USA market...best to make that clear as nearly all discussion in this thread is concerning USA. For example, Autotrader UK currently shows (8) SF90 coupes for sale (less than 10% of USA), and nearly all asking prices are WELL UNDER $500,000 USD (i.e. under £400,000 GBP), as I wrote, there is no notable connection.
Best to make it clear willcrook is based in UK so I’m referring to UK market.. jeez already ignored you had to unignore to reply.. hopefully that’s the last time..
Some are 'sponsored' so they appear more than once, but the total is accurate without duplicates. (It says 'Sponsored' above the car image for any). For instance, right now Autotrader shows 83 SF90, but if you go through the pages there are 95 images, so if you remove the 'Sponsored' ads, there are 83, the count is accurate.
OK, but I was referring to Autotrader which includes any source that wants to advertise, current advertisers include Lamborghini Dallas, Motorcars of Jackson, Mike Ward McLaren, Luxury Auto Collection, and many more non-Ferrari dealers.
No, I understand. Just thought it was interesting to note the number at the dealer. If the V8 goes away, that will change quickly. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
The SF90 is a V8, but, it has the downside of a very high asking prices and, for some, a finicky ev system and long term (for all) a very expensive out of warranty battery/inverter/etc replacement. I think the SF90 will continue to remain widely available on the pre-owned market forever regardless of anything else, that is, until such time the asking prices become quite a bit less (as they are in the UK, over there, any can be had for under 500K USD).
I don't know if this is the reason that 6 SF90's on sale (used) at Ferrari Monaco all of a sudden is no longer on the website?
Ferrari Monaco currently shows (2) SF90 for sale. In USA, Autotrader currently shows (92) SF90 for sale.
In reference to the thread title, I had a dinner this week with a friend who owns the F40 to LaF line and his car buyer/facilitator where we discussed car market in UK/Germany, where he operates. On the legacy Ferraris he thinks F40 are toppy, F50 undervalued and if the strong rumours of LaF being V6TT Hybrid come to fruition Enzo & LaF will continue to climb. On UK market he says the £150k to £250k is challenging due to Finance Costs in UK and stricter requirements. I was shocked to hear 75% of Porsche & Ferrari sales were financed in UK, just presumed 25/30%.. he sees signs that the Spring/Summer market this year will be in the £400k to £700k range, SF90 AF £400’s, Lamborghini Aventador replacement up to £500k, Aston Martin Valhalla £650k, SF90 VS £650k, Mclaren Senna £700k..cash buyers who want to have the Hyper Performance Cars. There is a lot of money out there as proven by £425/450k optioned Purosangue orders. On SF90 AF specifically, as he knows I own one, he was surprised that in the UK an AF car can be bought for only £40/50k over a 488 Pista, where 5 times as many UK Pista Coupe were produced than AF SF90. He thinks 2200 Worldwide SF90 Coupe produced, and about 240 came to UK, with about 110 AF/130 Base split on Coupe. Pista is a Supercar performance SF90 is a HyperCar performance, just compare it to 918 Spyder. On the SF90 market its all about perception. What went against it was 1st to Market in a new higher price range, it was Hybrid and unloved Haptic interface. On the price range, this price range will be the new playground now as other manufacturers supply their Hybrid offerings. On being Hybrid, Ferrari now has had over 2 years of data and teething problems in the bank, against Lamborghini or Aston Martin who have none. Future purchasers of SF90 or Lamborghini/Aston Martin have to bear that in mind. Also with the 296 range out in more regular production numbers more and more people are accessing these hybrid cars, where in the case of the SF90 a lot of negativity towards Hybrid was without even driving the car, it’s Hybrid so hate it. Again confirming 1st to Market is not always a good thing. With regards to Haptic Interface, I’m still not a convert but it’s true you do get used to it and it’s fine, just prefer buttons. His belief was that, as all Ferraris are going this way, 296, Purosangue, this will be a non event. On pricing he sees SF90 AF recovering well, armed with low UK numbers, it’s a HyperCar not a Supercar, and Hybrid is not such a taboo now with what cars are coming out this year from Lamborghini & Aston Martin, and the increased prices of such. I actually think his point about Ferrari having this 2 year teething problems data advantage and fixes is a huge plus over the newcomers, when considering what to buy. I hadn’t thought of that angle. Anyway this was just a dinner with 1 collector and 1 buyers thoughts, who knows..
I think it’s incorrect to state that Lamborghini has no experience with hybrid tech en contraire I’d argue that being part of the VAG it has a lot more experience than Ferrari does due to their ability to draw on the work, technology access to engineering etc of other members within the group. I am going to the Aventador replacement release in Italy in few days I will press the people in charge with the engineering of that car on the matter because I am actually curious myself but nevertheless stating they have no experience is factually incorrect IMO.
As mentioned the VAG group has successfully gone all electric with the Taycan and many hybrid porsche products so plenty of experience.
It’s a forum all about opinions.. if I can find he time might make it to Italy as well.. these were thoughts of some car dealers in UK and Germany and perception in market, not mine. I wrote this in relation to the thread title SF90 Resale, not what I thought about the new Lamborghini Revuelto.. my opinion on it is this, I’ve bought enough new lambos pre and post german ownership.. took me a long time to realize not to buy a slot before 18 months had passed since launch. Lamborghini and class leading electronics should not be in same sentence. Anyone who thinks a V12 1020 hp NA connected to 3 electric motors is going to go smoother then A V10 Gallardo new engine launch is living under a rock IMO.. I think the name Revuelto is perfect for this, scrambled. The car buyer market will probably think the same and that’s what the car dealer was referring to at dinner.. anyway if I make it over to Italy let’s have a macchiato together..
@Fortis https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2020/PORSCHE/CAYENNE%2520E-HYBRID/SUV/AWD https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V162-1029.PDF Description of the Defect : Specific soldering points on the flexible printed circuit assembled (FPCA) inside the HV battery may not establish a reliable connection due to manufacturing issues. Description of the Safety Risk : Unreliable connections inside the HV battery may lead to breakdowns or stalling while driving in the field. This can lead to a crash without warning. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V162-2948.PDF https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-volkswagen-id4-shutting-off-nhtsa-safety-recall/ https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2022/04/06/nhtsa-investigation-electric-vehicle-batteries/9481709002/ If the AVR uses LG Chem batteries, good luck! Otherwise, VAG has plenty of hybrid experience and recalls... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/us-may-recall-porsche-taycan-heres-why/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36904751/porsche-taycan-recall-announced-power-loss/ And, if either Tormenta or Revuelto is the name for the AVR, just presume they think that either their product will torment you or leave you disordered/agitated and in a mess... tor·ment noun /ˈtôrˌment/ severe physical or mental suffering. verb /ˈtôrˌment,tôrˈment/ cause to experience severe mental or physical suffering. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/revuelto Adjective revuelto (feminine revuelta, masculine plural revueltos, feminine plural revueltas) disordered, mixed, in a mess scrambled (eggs) agitated
I see you like using the dictionary, why not use it to google the word experience? Let me help you, refer to the second paragraph below, it will help you understand what I stated in my comment above. Instead of writing the irrelevant stuff below which further reinforces my claim that VAG has experience in the field (good or bad) while making a very poor attempt at humour which would put to shame most dad jokes in existence try to understand the core of my statement try to be rational rather than emotional. Experience definition: Experience refers to the accumulation of knowledge, skills, and understanding that an individual gains through direct participation in events, activities, or circumstances. It involves the interaction between a person and their environment, including their physical surroundings, social interactions, and internal thoughts and emotions. Experiences can be positive or negative, and they can vary in intensity, duration, and complexity. They can shape a person's perceptions, beliefs, values, and attitudes, and can influence their behavior and decision-making in the present and future. Experiences can be acquired through a range of activities, including travel, work, education, hobbies, relationships, and personal challenges. The more diverse and meaningful experiences a person has, the more they can learn and grow from them, and the richer their life can become. Some reading/educational material for you: The 918 The 918 which was produced between 2013 and 2015 was Porsche's first plug-in hybrid model and represented a significant milestone in the company's development of hybrid technology. The 918 Spyder features a hybrid powertrain that combines a 4.6-liter V8 gasoline engine with two electric motors. The gasoline engine produces 608 horsepower, while the two electric motors produce an additional 279 horsepower. The combined output of the hybrid system is 887 horsepower and 944 lb-ft of torque, which makes the 918 Spyder one of the most powerful production cars ever made. The 918 Spyder also features a sophisticated hybrid control system that allows the driver to select from several different driving modes, including electric-only mode, hybrid mode, and performance mode. In performance mode, the car can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in just 2.2 seconds and has a top speed of 214 mph. Overall, the Porsche 918 Spyder represents a significant achievement in hybrid technology and demonstrates Porsche's commitment to developing high-performance vehicles that a R18 e-tron LMP1 Audi has competed in the 24 Hours of Le Mans endurance race with hybrid cars and won 3 times. Audi developed a hybrid system for its R18 e-tron quattro race car, which competed in the Le Mans Prototype 1 (LMP1) class. The R18 e-tron quattro was powered by a 4.0-liter V6 diesel engine that was paired with a hybrid system that included a flywheel energy storage system and a front-axle-mounted electric motor. The hybrid system provided additional power and torque to the car, which helped it to achieve faster lap times and improved fuel efficiency. Audi first entered the R18 e-tron quattro in the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2012, and the car went on to win the race in both 2012 and 2013. The hybrid system used in the R18 e-tron quattro demonstrated the potential of hybrid technology in motorsports, and paved the way for the development of hybrid and electric race cars in other motorsports series. Misc The Volkswagen Auto Group (VAG) has been investing in hybrid technology for several years now and has developed several hybrid models across its various brands, including Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, and Bentley. One of VAG's most popular hybrid models is the Volkswagen Golf GTE, which is a plug-in hybrid that combines a 1.4-liter gasoline engine with an electric motor to produce a total output of 201 horsepower. The Golf GTE has a pure electric driving range of around 31 miles and can achieve up to 166 mpg in combined driving. Another notable VAG hybrid is the Audi A3 e-tron, which is a plug-in hybrid that combines a 1.4-liter gasoline engine with an electric motor to produce a total output of 204 horsepower. The A3 e-tron can drive up to 16 miles on electric power alone and can achieve up to 83 mpg in combined driving. VAG has also developed hybrid technology for its luxury brands, including the Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid, which is a plug-in hybrid that combines a 3.0-liter V6 gasoline engine with an electric motor to produce a total output of 416 horsepower. The Panamera S E-Hybrid has a pure electric driving range of around 22 miles and can achieve up to 50 mpg in combined driving.
So if it's a forum all about opinions then I can freely state mine.....? I have owned a lot of Lamborghini cars and have had no issues with them maybe I am just lucky, I have the new Hybrid on order I will let you know how I go with, I am an early adopter, same with my SF90 Spider, I have no issues buying cars under warranty, if I need to take it to service I have others I can drive no big deal, if it wasn't for early adopters how would you have peace of mind to buy 18 months later? I don't drink coffee but you can message me if you come to Italy, having said that if you aren't set to come I doubt you will be there since the event is in 2 days and we all had to confirm attendance few weeks back.
Thanks, but, find out, if you can, if LG Chem is responsible for the battery of the AVR. That is actually my main point, VAG chose LG Chem for various model and it has been disastrous, hopefully the AVR will escape that. The 918 battery was by Bosch and it is actually not that expensive to replace (when it ages out).
That’s strange last time I flew London to Bologna was 2 hours not 2 days… also I confirm a lot of events and restaurants and plane tickets that sometimes I cannot turn up on the day.. I still don’t believe my dealer that the car will be called Revuelto, as it’s on a hiding to nothing with that meaning. I still believe it’s a Winkelmann joke..
Am I supposed to know where you live? LOL why would I talk about the time it would take to travel to the event? Anyway, that's not what I meant when I was talking about two days, what I meant was that if you haven't confirmed attendance to the event (Aventador replacement reveal) you will not be able to come because the event is by invitation only, 70 customers (with a + 1) world wide were invited to attend, local dealers selected the customers, we had to confirm attendance in advance because accommodation (in some cases) and dinner is provided and I am assuming they had to lock that in for everyone but you might be special enough that you can just show up and if that's the case I might see you there.
