Time For A Major | FerrariChat

Time For A Major

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by scowman, Mar 27, 2023.

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  1. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    #1 scowman, Mar 27, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
    1995 456 GT.

    I posted recently about grease leaking from my timing belt pulley bearings. The reason I pulled the covers to begin with was to chase down a leak when I noticed oil dripping off the power steering pump belt adjusted bolt.

    This lead me to right side cover backing plate. Oil was coming in trough one of those bolt holes, migrating down to the bottom of the cover, then across to the left side where it dripped off the adjuster bolt. Pretty crazy.

    So I pulled the alternator and the 30 year old AC pump that was not working to trace the leak source.

    I narrowed it down to the cam cover, cam seal holder o-ring ? or the blow by hose into the cam cover. The cam seal is not leaking.

    So I cleaned everything really well, re-torqued the cam cover bolts in the area, sealed the blowby hose, put a new AC pump on, and everything back together and ran her for a while.

    Result is the leak is still there, and the blowby hose is not leaking.

    That leaves the cam cover and the cam seal holder o-ring.

    Looking at the records I have, the last major was done by Ferrari of Washington (VA) in 2004 for a total of $7k

    The hose underneath the plenum replaced also in 2004 at a cost of $1,700.

    The plenum was pulled again later in 2004 to replace the temp sensors for another 1.1k.

    I have other service records but nothing major which makes me conclude the plenum and cam covers have not been off since 2004.

    So after 19 years I think it is time to change the hoses and sensors down there. Looks like that little hose is leaking a little too. I am also guessing the covers have not been off since then as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
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    Stu Boogie
    Here is what I think I need to do.
    • Cam seals, o-rings, gaskets, etc.
    • Check valve clearances & adjust
    • Clean injectors, replace hoses, thermostat, sensors gaskets, etc under plenum.
    • Degree cams.
    • Replace belts, bearings, etc.
    • Paint cam covers? Not sure if I really care but...
    Anything I am missing?
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,195
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Water pump?

    Trouble with a lot of our V12s in no recommended coolant change in the maintenance schedule. So a lot of them have coolant with all the additives long worn out. Leads to sludge in the system and you lose some of the lubricating properties of the coolant.
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,068
    socal
    Air filter,
    Oil filters
    Fuel filters
    Coolant flush
    Brake flush
    Water pump
    Great time to get cooling fans off the fuse box
    Check sensors crank cam heat destroys the plastic
    Walnut shell intake
    Spark plugs inspect secondary circuits wires…
    Service AC
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
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    Brian Crall
    And clogging of the aerospace priced radiator.
     
  6. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
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    Stu Boogie
    Thanks for all the tips all three of you. I will take that to heart.

    When I got it back in 2018 I did the water pump, replaced the radiator with a Ron Davis, replaced the fans moved their power supply to a fat wire off the alternator. It's only had about 20hrs on the motor since then, mostly idling in the garage.

    I did the AC last week.

    I will replace the filters, t-stat and anything under the plenum as I do not want to go back there. A water flush too. Brake flush is a must do but for another project.

    FBB: The walnut shell intake: Just replace the gasket or is there something else there?

    Finally, what is the trick to getting the injector connectors off? There are two wire clips off the side and one underneath. I could fool around and figure it out but the plastic is so brittle I worry about a costly mistake.
     
  7. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
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    Stu Boogie
  8. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    #8 Cribbj, Mar 28, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
    The fuel injection harnesses & connectors are very brittle from heat & age and you probably will break at least one of the connectors. Fortunately those Bosch connectors are pretty common & you can get replacements off eBay or any of the online shops that specialize in fuel injection. You seem like a proactive guy so if I were you, I'd buy some of these with new boots & plan on replacing all of them "while you're in there".

    Dave Helms brought out some excellent replacement harnesses 10-12 years ago & a few lucky souls were able to get them before the great "gold vs tinned" debate discouraged Dave from building any more.
     
  9. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for the feedback. Any idea how to get the clip off?
     
  10. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    No, sorry. It's been too long since I did it on my 550 and I really don't remember what I did, but it couldn't have been too hard if I was able to figure it out. Those little clips on the electrical connectors are always a frustrating puzzle.
     
  11. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
    711
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    You just squeeze the 2 short sides and the metal clip will deform and allow the connector to be pulled off.
     
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  12. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

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    You rock!
     
  13. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
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    AVIMAX, you tip got the connectors off. I had to use pliers though as my banana fingers were too big to fit between the plenum tubes.

    Like most, I made a special tool setup for the 10mm plenum bolts. 1/4 drive 10mm socket, uni-joint, a solid extension, all wrapped in heat shrink, with a stack of rare earth magnets stuffed inside. Works great! The heat shrink keeps the rig together and the uni joint from flopping around too much. I also melted the uni-joint at an angle to facilitate mating which is not straight up and down. Didn't drop a bolt or a socket.

    Hopefully I will pull the plenum off tomorrow. How much does that thing weigh? I'm a solo artist in my neighborhood (no help). Do I need a shop crane?

    Also, check out the neat trick by the Ferrari mechanic. Color coated the vacuum lines for later reference.
     

    Attached Files:

    Qavion likes this.
  14. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    683
    Continental Europe
    #14 Timmo, Mar 29, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    Just a note on injectors. The fuel rail(s) should be removed with the injectors attached to them. That is common to many if not all of fuel-injected engines using that sort of layout where accessing the clips is not really doable in situ, think Ferrari 550. By doing so we do not have to worry about spilling fuel anywhere over the engine if the injectors are still secured on the fuel rail(s).
    Installation is the reverse of removal - install the injectors to the fuel rail(s) before refitting the assembly to the intake manifold(s).
    You may well have the injectors ultrasonic-cleaned and bench-tested whilst they are off, and replace the seals and inner filters - shop for Porsche 964 or 993 injector reseal kits, they are the same. Ferrari injectors seem to get particularly dirty, at least the friend who did mine said he had never seen such filthy units and had to "bathe" them several times.
     
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  15. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

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    Good advice. Thanks.
     
  16. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
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    I've removed the manifold from my 550 by myself, but it's very awkward to do without help, so now I always try to find a helper. That said, if you plan to remove the side covers to clean out any residual oil, then do that first and the centre section should be easy to lift off on your own.
     
  17. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    Thanks AVIMAX. I may try that. Help me out on the side covers please. FBB mentioned those too. What exactly needs to be done besides gasket replacement? Sludge buildup?

    Also noticed some goo dipping from right throttle body linkage. Could those be related or is that my blowby tube feeding into the intake duct? Either way I need to stop that I think.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

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    I removed one of the rails as you suggested. Came of remarkably easy. Pretty ugly though...
     

    Attached Files:

  19. AVIMAX

    AVIMAX Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2014
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    Side covers will need new gaskets. You will find oil inside most likely and that may be related to the goo under the throttle body. A good time to clean out the intake and the throttle bodies. Take a look at a parts diagram for the intake, it should be pretty self explanatory. You don't need to separate the throttle bodies from the side covers.
     
  20. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    Thanks for the help. Will let you know what I find when I dig into it.
     
  21. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    683
    Continental Europe
    #21 Timmo, Mar 29, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    I cannot remember ever seeing such a dirty injector. How do your pistons look like, at least looking from spark plug holes? I believe our cars are tuned to run "too" rich from the factory and if the engines spend (too) much time idling and/or running at "low" loads then significant carbon build up may take place, whence IMO the need to have the injectors thoroughly cleaned up, AND the need to actually run our engines at WOT regularly to "clear their throats", obviously after they are fully warmed up. Refreshing the fueling system is one of the first things I did after I bought my 550, along with cleaning the inlet tracts, and although there was no such heavy soot on the injectors when I took them off it seems to me that having them cleaned not only helped with engine overall smoothness and response but also spark plugs look cleaner now and there seems to be less carbon build up on the top of the pistons. Kind of funny/ironic that Ferrari seems to have tuned our fuel-injected engines so that they require similar treatment and care with the fueling system as older carburetted engines...
     
  22. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    They are going on 30 years old and I do not believe they have been refreshed. There is a local shop that uses sonic cleaning and has a flow bench that I will try out. I used to give my 4 carbed 308 an "Italian tune-up" every once in a while. I even have the speeding ticket to prove it:)

    The problem with the 456 is that it is so stinking fast that "I can't get my car out of second gear..." Maybe a few freeway on-ramp runs...
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I do not disconnect the vacuum lines. No need. The left bank hose connects to the right bank regulator and vise versa so no problem figuring that out anyway. The injectors and injector plugs are both more easily removed once the manifold is on the bench. Im 67 and remove the manifold solo. No big deal.
     
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  24. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    683
    Continental Europe
    Brian, isn't it easier to reach the 24 nuts holding the intake manifold on the heads if the injectors and fuel rails are out of the way?
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #25 Rifledriver, Mar 29, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    Not really.

    Everything I take apart, I have to put back together, then I am responsible for it.

    Even if the plan is to take them out, its easier, faster and less chance of damage to the injector harness done on the bench. a 1/4 drive universal socket gets around the injectors quite easily. I have done it a hundred times.

    I have never seen a 550 or 456 injector that dirty in my life. Does it have 300,000 miles?


    Too rich!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me? Have you ever done an exhaust gas analyzer test on one? I do it regularly. When those cars first came out there was a lot of disbelief that an engine of that performance level could run that clean. If the intake tract is getting that dirty there is something wrong.
     

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