Hamilton deserves more respect

It's not that I don't like him; I kinda like him, in fact; even if some of his clothing questions my good old common sense (remember Oscar Wilde's "the utmost of elegance is invisibility"? Well...lots of work to do here...).
And I do think his record deserves respect, no doubt about that (to stay in tune with the title of the thread).
I only was wondering, during the years he had superior machinery, how would he cope with adversity. Superior machinery tends to blurr the appreciation of a driver.
I think we all know now. He definitively lacks fair-play (and he is not french, see, William...?). A bit disappointing. So, not in GOAT territory.
Is he too old or past his prime? I don't think so. Has Russell really been that superior? I don't think so, either.
In fact, i'm hoping he'll get a very good car before he retires, just to settle my judgement once and for all.
Kinda like the guy, in fact. Not my kind of favorite drivers (think Mika Häkkinen here: blindingly fast, and a lot of class...) I have to say, but Hamilton's record sure deserves some respect.

Rgds

 

Just because you had a chat with them doesn't change their skill level throughout history of F1. That's cool you had some personal experiences with them, but it doesn't have to be taken personal when someone doesn't think highly of their driving in comparison to the history of drivers in F1.

 

Undeserving is a harsh word I think. Nobody said that. The car is always a primary factor, but a lot of drivers earn the respect as being a top level driver before or after claiming a championship. Destroying their teammates year after year, or winning in cars that have no business winning. Just a couple of examples. JV and Damon Hill don't exactly have that on their resume's. They've been thumped by teammates and were only successful in a car that 80% of the grid could have won in. In the list of F1 champions, somebody has to be at the bottom.

 

+1 I respect his efforts and results. Lauda was sure he would do well and he did. His clothes and all that are easily over looked. Im shocked anyone is wasting so much time on all that. George needs a solid 'dominating' year to really put him out. I dont think the car will yield that. LH got much stronger last year after summer.

I rate Lando over George. Given LH age with a better car for the team I think its more than likely LH will lose to George overall. LH has drive to win another title. I dont see the FA type resilience to do it.

 

Well, this is a shockingly mature, reasoned, and appropriate response.
What's wrong with you?

 

Well said.

Let's compare two "fans":

ONE, has been following F1 for decades. Probably goes to live races at every chance, spent some time learning the history of the sport, learning the rules and maybe even spends some time on a track now & then.
TWO, a more casual fan ... but actually "met" a driver or two that one time at a race.

Is person ONE's opinion about a driver any less valid? I think not.

 

Yet, following Senna's death, Williams promoted to #1 status.
Against Schumacher and a Benetton team that took some liberty with the rules (he was suspended at one point), Hill won 6 GPs that year.
He only missed the title by ONE point against Schumacher, who rammed him in the last GP (taste of things to come !).
I don't think Hill has anything to be ashamed of his 94 season. He went on to win the title later. .

 

Lewis Hamilton drops biggest end of F1 career hint yet as he prepares for Tiger King season 3 role

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Completly agree; he also came very close to a win 1997 at the wheel of an Arrows (Yes: an Arrows...) on the Osterreichring; was the first driver to score a Grand-Prix win at the wheel of a Jordan, etc...
I have never understood why he is so underrated by many, even scorned upon. You do not win 20 Grand Prix by luck: one, maybe. Twenty? By luck? Come on...
Plus, being a "son of", he had a hard act to follow. And considering the state of his father's business at the time of his death, his life hasn't been easy; a well deserving Champion, if you ask me.

Rgds

 

There is a regular meet between NATO aviation squadrons which have the Tiger as an emblem (= the "Tiger Meet"), perhaps he could apply?
President Putin had a tigress called "Zolushka", which means "Cinderella" in russian...

Gosh...sometimes, he really is over the top.

Rgds

 

Hill is a far better driver than most give him credit for. Not the fastest or most naturally skilled, but utterly deserving of his one WDC. We all know he should be a two times WDC and have won the 94 title. A relative newcomer and very much #2 driver who had to step up and lead the team after the undisputed #1 was killed. In some sad ways it was a reminder of his father stepping up after Clarke was killed, although Graham was at or past his peak when that happened, not a newcomer. That he did that, pulled the team around him and only lost because a well known bad sportsman cheater in a cheating car racked up more cheating points, who still had to take him out in Australia to win it, shows he did an outstanding job in almost impossible conditions.

There is no such thing as an unworthy WDC in F1. If you really had too come up with a 'least deserving' I'd go for Keke Rosberg. Not that I don't like him. I do, he was, and always will always be a favorite. I certainly like him more than his more successful son. But 1982 was a horrible horrible year. I think it was the legendary Nigel Roebuck (I am prepared to be proven wrong) coined the phrase 'The title no one wanted to win'. We lost Villeneuve, Pironi had career ending injuries. Keke did a stunning job taking only one win and a handful of podiums in the last hurrah for an NA engine.

 

Its funny to see the harsh words on people with immense skill - Champion or not here. We have zero real idea of their experience in that F1 world. Their skill level and luck and timing yields a title. They lived the dream and we say what here LOL. History is nice, its hardly the entire story. Just sound bites and easily skewed stats for an argument for ego and fandom. Bottas is not LH. Damon is not MS.

They still drove in F1 what we say about them is so serious here lol???? Perplexing in its meaning to be so deep/intense here. Filling voids. Im a fan of F1 and not anymore in a specific what, to a team or driver. The sport changes quickly and I just hope to enjoy what version it is and what it offers. Never is it ideal and no driver is either.

What will we see in Oz and who will shine or surprise us!
Sorry for the late response. Chaotic week of travel, cars and normal pace of life in spring season now.

 

Race weekend. Feeling happy lol I will try to not make it a habit.

 

Riccardo Paletti was killed in 1982 also.

 

He was #1 by default wouldn't you say? 4 of Hill's 6 wins came when Schumacher was either DQ'd or didn't start the race. In a car that was faster than the Benetton.

 

I don't agree with the "should have won 94" part. The FIA did everything they could to prevent Schumacher from winning it. The harshest penalties ever given for the infractions that were proven perhaps? Schumacher dominates in an inferior car and despite 4 races he didn't get to claim points for. I'd say he deserved that championship, and it would have been a robbery by the FIA if he didn't win it. His deliberate crashing into Hill was terrible, but it never should have got to that point. 2 sides of the this coin, that's for sure.

 

Inferior car? this the same Beneton that lapped every body in Brazil? ( Senna did retire mind ) But still, Senna couldnt shake MSC, and when MSC over took him in the pits, Senna couldnt keep up after that

 

It's hard for many to believe because most only see the wins. When you dig deeper its very obvious

In the first 3 races, Senna out qualified MSC by an average of .296 seconds (3 poles) That alone is a pretty big gap. Damon Hill was on average 0.922 seconds off Senna's pace in those 3 races. That is enormous.

After Imola, Schumacher's pace was compared to the Williams with drivers that were far off of what Senna could do. Despite that, Williams was able to get 3 more poles (2 with Hill), 7 fastest laps, and 7 wins (6 with HIll), though 4 were because MSC was not classified.

In the 2 races Schumacher was banned, the Benneton was 1.460 and 1.234 seconds off the best Williams in Quali, and 2.142 and 1.256 seconds off the Williams in the race. The best Benneton Quali position was 10th, and their best race position was 5th. Meanwhile, the Williams would have finished 1-2 in both those races had Coulthard not ran out of fuel.

Williams did win the Constructors championship. 118 pts to 103.

If it isn't obvious by now that the Williams was much better, we can see how Schumacher was the difference maker for Benetton;

Michael scored 92 of the teams 103 points that year, despite not being classified for 4 races. In the 12 rounds he was scored, he had 8 wins and 10 podiums. His teammates combined for just 2 podiums.

Michael's average qualifying result was 1.79, and average finish result was 1.20. His best teammate that season was Jos Verstappen, who's average quali result was 10.75 and his average finish was 4.67. This excludes DNF's, DQ's, DNS's, and doesn't factor in any grid penalties.

Michael was also 1.920 seconds faster than Jos over the course of the season.

 

I think he's crap, and his comments are even worse!
Keke, was very lucky, but he was very talented, he would run rings around Hill

 

Yap, crashed into the standing still Ferrari of Pironi at the start of the Canadian g.p

 

Yes, Schumacher was DQ several times that year, and mostly because his Benetton was found infringing the rules.
That the penalty you incur when you cheat !

 

Schumacher and Benetton were cheating all year.
They got these disqualifications coming to them !

 

How as he cheating?

He passed Hill during the warm up, was given a 5 second stop and go penalty and the team appealed. FIA didn't even allow the appeal and thus gave a black flag to MSC during the race. That already is brutally harsh. And then to further give him a 2 race ban? Seriously?

The car didn't pass post race tech in Belgium, hard to argue the DQ there.

 

Well, you get penalised when you don't observe the sporting rules, namely a black flag.
A penalty always seems harsh for the one who receives it. The FIA was right to suspend him.
Schumacher and Benetton were pushing their luck all during the 94 season. They were undeserving champions in my opinion.
This is where we got the first taste of Schumacher arrogance, his unsporting behaviour, and there was more to come.
You are welcome to your opinion, but don't expect all folks to agree with them.