I welcome others opinions. I appreciate you and I can disagree and be civil, and still agree on other things. I feel that calling them cheaters is unwarranted and without facts. Calling someone cheaters isn't opinion, its either they did or they didn't. I have no issues with you not liking Benetton or Schumacher, to each their own. DQ and 2 race ban for ignoring a black flag is insane. A black flag for not serving a penalty that was under appeal, a penalty in which he did eventually serve.Has there ever been a harsher penalty in F1? McLaren 2007 and Singapore 2008 were blatant cheating, and neither got punished nearly as bad.
Fully agree. With insights some Newey’s creations were just so good that we can have some doubts about the real skills from Hill, JV and Vettel..
No, Jos had a different car, with out traction control and so on which was banned. when taking tht into consideration, the rest means nothing, he and Benetton waas cheats, and it was those cheats that made the differnce..
It's the FIA found Schumacher and Benetton cheating, not me; they had all the elements to come to that conclusion. I respect their finding and only mention them. I tend to agree with the decisions of authorities; in sport like in justice. Whataboutism will lead you nowhere: each case is different.
A different car, really? I guess when MSC missed 2 races, his car stayed in his own garage. You can believe Benetton cheated, I read the allegations too. They were never caught or proved to be cheating. The traction control claims was early in the season, investigations were done, and after that, Benetton and Schumacher was still winning races. There are countless incidents of other teams, including Ferrari and Mercedes of "cheating". Flexy wings and floors, burning oil as fuel, by passing the fuel flow regulator, trick suspensions, etc etc etc. Some incidents were never caught or proved, others were. Some required changes to regulations to close loopholes. I don't see you calling them cheats, especially not Mercedes.
Again, how were they caught cheating by the FIA? By the regulations, the FIA were required to inform Benetton of a penalty within 15 mins. They took 27 minutes, and Benetton appealed. MSC still served the penalty and yet still got DQ'd and a 2 race ban. How is this cheating? Each case is different? That is a convenient perspective to fit your narrative, yet everyone wants to see consistency with penalties as that is in fact a fair way to police a sport. But I suppose it tells us that you could not find a similarly harsh penalty.
Exactly. As per more recent interviews from guys involved back then (who were opposition teams!), almost all teams (minus the ones at the very back) had the software on their car still. It was a few lines of code, that's it. What Senna heard back then was the exhaust blown diffuser.
In many of the instances you mention, the FIA didn't sanction the alleged "offenders", and they were not found guilty of any cheating. We can't have F1 ruled by rumours, and teams tried by media. The FIA is the legal adjudicator of F1, not pundits spreading gossips or team principals smearing other teams.
Lets believe Senna's track side ears over the investigation results of the FIA. The same FIA that was hunting for any reason to penalize Benetton. They were watched closer than perhaps any team in history, and nothing was proven to be purposeful cheating. Schumacher's car did not pass post tech in Belgium, their reasoning wasn't believable, and was rightfully disqualified. I can live with that.
Do you sincerely believe JV and Hill are comparable with Hakkinen and Verstappen ? I don’t think so but this is only my opinion based on my subjective observations.
what do you mean the FIA didn't sanction the offenders? They are the sanctioning body of Formula 1 and all these offenses were done in Formula 1. I don't get what you are saying. Burning oil as fuel when you are limited to the amount of fuel you can burn is cheating. Mercedes were caught doing this were they not? FIA had sensors to measure fuel flow, and Ferrari was within the limits in 2019, yet found a way around this. Sounds like a loophole exploit, but was deemed to be cheating and a secret penalty went into place. Their 2020 season was horrendous because of it. Ferrari were accused of having a flexy floor in 2004, but were not caught of anything illegal. Red Bull had a flexy rear wing in 2021, though it passed all of the FIA's tests. Mercedes complained, and they changed the rules mid season. Loophole closed. You say F1 can't be ruled by rumors, yet you are first hand calling Benetton cheaters based on your opinion and rumors.
For Schumacher’s haters ! Jean Todt: "Michael when he was racing could seem a bit arrogant & unsympathetic, but it was an attitude that served to hide his shyness. He was humble, always questioning himself. He never blamed the team, not even when the brakes broke at Silverstone because of us."
I live in the real world, not one that suits my personal agenda. That must be the difference between you and me.
No, based on the FIA findings and decisions. That made up my mind. For the others instances you mention, there was no case to answer following investigations. It's the same in the real world, you know: not all the accusations are followed and prosecuted.
IMO both Hakkinen and Max displayed plenty of their capabilities in non-newey equipment, and especially in Verstappens case, in sub-par Newey cars as well.
A bit of basic logic is necessary here. IF (if...) the Newey-designed cars has been such an advantage for Hill and Villeneuve, then why weren't they such an advantage for Mika Häkkinen and Max Verstappen? After all, Jacques Villeneuve "destroyed" his -until then - highly touted tema mate Heinz-Harald Frentzen...and Max Verstappen never "destroyed" Daniel Riccardo. And Mika Häkkinen (a driver I think highly of...) never destroyed David Coultheard, either. So you cannot have it both ways. Not saying that Jacques, overall, considering his whole career, was a great driver. But in 1996 and 1997, he certainly was. Remember that pass on Schumacher ON THE OUTSIDE in Estoril? Remember Schumacher saying about Damon Hill in 1996: "anybody saying that a guy who won 8 Grand Prix in a season of 16 is not a great driver knows nothing about Formula One"? Rgds.
But: he didn't "destroy" (as some others on this forum would say) his team-mate Ricciardo, so their logic wouldn't apply. Sorry Bas, I will not expand more here, as I think Max is basically lacking class and education: a pr%ck, if you ask me. So my judgement is probably biased, and I know about this. He is a witness of our times, when parents do whatever they can to fabricate and groom a champion, and forgot to educate a human being. I'm completly indifferent to the guy, he lacks the basic dimension of a great sportsman; couldn't care less. No hard feeelings.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. What many forget is that Max only had 1 car season before coming to F1 so did majority of his learning in F1,so I think some leeway is allowed. By the time they where teammates, he Max had 1 car season under his belt and 1 F1 season, whereas Ricciardo was in his 5th season of F1 and 11th car season. He demolished Ricciardo in 2018 and every teammate since. I don't have the data on hand and can't be bothered to research it but Max had a lot of reliability issues in race/quali sessions in 2017 on top of that, but I don't know exactly how many it was in relation to Ric. Max 2 wins, Ric 1, but Ric beat him on points. His personality is subjective so I won't go into it, all I can say is what you see is what you get, no time for games. Hate him or love him type I guess.
The FIA were desperate in trying to slow down Schumacher. Repeatedly. Double penalties were blatantly clear in displaying the FIA's agenda.
You made a good point there. As I said this is only my subjective opinion. Biased by my current frustration about Ferrari certainly.
