430 - P0011 | FerrariChat

430 P0011

Discussion in '360/430' started by carguy007, Feb 20, 2022.

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  1. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    Cam timing code P0011. Car runs well and idles nice, however the cell is on and if you clear comes back in about 30-50 miles. Replaced both the cam variators on the bank throwing the code and reset everything. Code still came back. Does this mean the problem lies is with the actual mechanics of the variators? I cleaned the connectors out the connector on the loom side as it did have oil contamination when I connected the new variator solenoid. No idea what else to do next. It’s annoying as the car runs well, but do have the cel so something must not be right - thoughts
     
  2. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,976
    Isle of man- uk
    Does this code come up if you rev the engine when stopped ? The cam timing will adjust during the rev range and the sensor is the feedback to tell the system it has actually moved. Does that code relate to a specific cam sensor ?
     
  3. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    No the code is p0010 which refers to just one bank and not a specific sensor unfortunately or intake/exhaust cam. I can rev the car, let it idle, redline etc and the code is not triggered by that single action. It is more related to time and mileage. I think the ecu is looking to confirm a specific degree of camshaft angle and the values are not matching. The variator may not be fully advancing, hence the code was my thoughts. If it expects the variator to be at x and the ecu does not show it there it stores the code. So maybe some
    Of the time it’s where it should be and others have its not. That’s the only thing I can think of as the car drives exceptionally and idles perfect.
     
  4. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,007
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    What are we working on 430 or 360?
     
  5. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
  6. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,784
    Can you plot the requested vs actual advance/retard and get an idea of what's going on?
     
  7. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,976
    Isle of man- uk
    The variator will have a voltage supplied to it to make it adjust and the cam sensor is the feedback to tell the ecu it is in the correct place- is it possible to measure the volts on each bank , say with key on but engine off ? Just looking for differences
     
  8. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    My launch software indicates that voltages are all good. Maybe I could get a voltmeter and do a test manually. Great suggestion.
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,422
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    I haven't been able to find wiring diagrams for the 430 timing variators and I don't think you could use the 360 as a guide to power supply:

    On the 360,
    the earth on the variator is permanent. The voltage is supplied via a relay and fuse behind one of the seats. The relay is controlled by a single pin on the RH ECU. It seems a slow way of actuating the variators.

    A 430 engine ECU pinout suggests that the Left and Right ECUs control their respective variators. There are two pins on each engine ECU assigned to the variators. I don't know if both wires go to the variator or if one wire is power in from the fuse (behind each seat) and the other wire is power out to the variator.

    Experts?
     
  10. Richard Brophy

    Jan 3, 2020
    7
    Full Name:
    Krb5137
    I had this issue crop up recently on my 430. I sent the car to Ferrari thinking I had variator problems and they determined that some cable had simply been unplugged during a recent oil change by a local mechanic. They plugged it back in and everything went back to normal. Check the cables and maybe also check for continuity? Perhaps nothing is unplugged but a wire inside the connectors has come loose?
    I’ll try to check my maintenance records and report back with the specific cable that was unplugged.
     
    carguy007 likes this.
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,976
    Isle of man- uk
    Try a squirt of contact cleaner on any contacts in the system, be sure it is non residual and self drying.
     
  12. Richard Brophy

    Jan 3, 2020
    7
    Full Name:
    Krb5137
    This is what Ferrari said about my issue: "Visually inspect wiring from ECU to engine and found RH Bank Exhaust Varriator Solenoid Connector is fully unplugged. Secured connector and confirmed connector snap locks are holding. Clear errors and road test car. No errors returned." - maybe this is helpful...

    Best of luck.
     
  13. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,624
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Read in other threads that the actuator wiring can get soaked in oil from wicking. Issue with actuator itself but then interferes with the electrical operation.

    Previous gen Ferrari folks swear by the DeoxIT spray so start there? (like Jesus in a can for some older electronics apparently)
     
  14. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    thanks keep us updated.
     
  15. johnso21

    johnso21 Rookie

    May 21, 2019
    26
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Johnny J
    Did this ever get resolved?

     
  16. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    Unfortunately not car is still running strong however
     
  17. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,624
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    DeoxIt D5 attempted?
     
  18. johnso21

    johnso21 Rookie

    May 21, 2019
    26
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Johnny J
    interesting. I have literally the exact same issue with my f430. Other than that code there’s been 4 ferrari master techs who have all tried and failed to fix the code. They all came back and said “there’s nothing wrong. It’s running perfect”.
     
  19. johnso21

    johnso21 Rookie

    May 21, 2019
    26
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Johnny J
    I should say too I’ve spent $14k trying to fix the issue. New variators, and other little things that were cleaned up. Still the CEL persists but only if you get high rpms. If I cruise around under about 6-7k rpm’s then the CeL doesn’t come on.
     
  20. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,976
    Isle of man- uk
    Did you look at the timing sensor in the top of the rocker box
     
  21. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    What is the rocker box? I was thinking the issues being caused by timing solenoid not seeing the expected oil pressure to advance the variator properly. Both banks are registering the same code, I don’t think it’s mechanical. What are odds both variatiors would fail the exact same way and time.
     
  22. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,976
    Isle of man- uk
    You might call a cam cover, a rocker box. From what i understand of the system the timing sensor is the feedback that tells the ecu what position the variator is in. If you just opened it to the oil supply it is going to be full open or full closed, so the sensor gives the cam lobe position and the oil pressure varies to achieve the required advance.
    In the case of the 488, this can be up to 55 to 60 degree range
     
  23. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,784
    The above is what I would want to be looking at in diagnostics in order to get an idea of exactly when and where the actual advance/restart doesn't match the requested value. At high RPM the demands on the adjustment system will be greatest due to elevated cylinder pressures i.e. it requires more effort to rotate the cam position due to increased resistance from the valves. This effort is provided by oil pressure and the system features an oil (pressure) accumulator to maintain correct operation during transient pressure scenarios, and also - presumably - at elevated cylinder pressures.

    If the sensors are ruled out and there is a consistent issue at high RPM as confirmed by diagnostics then I would be looking to replace the accumulator (part 197062). I don't like to throw parts at a problem without confirmation, but in reality there is not an easy way to test this part.

    There are also small oil filters for the adjuster oil supplies that would benefit from being cleaned or replaced, and two o-rings per adjuster that should be in good order.

    Another thing to consider is whether the static cam timing is off just enough to prevent a full adjustment of the cam at WOT. This is however less likely.
     
  24. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    897
    This makes sense and a good place to investigate. I will try and find it in a diagram. Basically sounds like you just pull the cam cover and should have access to it.
     
  25. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,976
    Isle of man- uk
    Looking at the diagram the sensor can be removed from the cam cover in situ
     
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