The only embarrassed is Bernie. He opened his mouth. He has admitted the entire F1 organization from ownership to governance covered up cheating in the season. Massa has zero to do with this but is owed the truth as are the fans and other teams. Sorry. This is ALL on Bernie and his blabbering lol!
Well, althogh this will go nowhere, anything that questions the crooks that run this circus is not a bad thing. At least it keeps them not too overconfident.
Yes this was very public and if Bernie is telling the truth, he colludes with Max M at the FIA etc, and others - the laundry needs to be aired fully. Bernie opened his mouth. Now he should start singing. Piquet as well. He has a part in this as he was coached by Bernie. Too late to say no. Massa and all of F1 then and now need to know what happend. Bernie is the one responsible for Massa inquiring. He alone...............Bernie.
There is a tendancy nowadays, that one can observe in that strange activity called "uchronia", which is rewriting history (= battles, etc...) considering that the outcome might have been different if one single event has not taken place: i.e, for instance "had Jules Caesar not eaten that much on a given day, he would not have been ill and not have missed that battle, etc..." This conveniently forgets that IF one single event had been different, it doesn't necessarly imply that every other successive event would have stayed the same; they might also have been different: a bee that would never had stung Julius Caesar in the first place because it wasn't here, and neither was Julius Caesar (he had eaten toot much), would have been here had he eaten less, then stung him; he would have made an anaphylactic reaction and died on the sport. So what would have happened ? No-one knows. This is precisely why the french Law (Don't know about common law, sorry, guys...) never accepts these type of claims around the idea that:" if this had not happened, I would have been crowned". It accepts that you have lost "a fair opportunity to challenge for yourself" ("La perte de chance"), but it cannot be proven that, had this one single event not taken place, the crown of World Champîon would have been Massa's: other events that had not taken place in the actual course of events could also have been different, so this one single event, even had it not happened, would not have guarantee that Massa would automatically have been World Champion. Better lay this to rest; after all, it happened 15 years ago. Rgds
BIG difference: remove the scandalous race (and all its points) from 2008, and Hamilton LOSES the title; remove the controversial race (and all its points) from 2021, and Verstappen KEEPS the title. Further, we are just now learning about a conspiracy and collusion, at the highest levels of the FIA, to essentially engineer the 2008 title ... all fully known, and all fully engineered, before the 2008 season was over. Yep ... the asterisk of the 2008 championship just got a whole lot BIGGER.
Is anyone actually surprised?There is tons of stuff kept under wraps which may or may not become public,Bernie could tell a lot more.
Not really, but I have to say that, for the sake of the contradictory, as Max has now left the arena, so we have to take Bernie's word for granted. I would have liked another light on that matter; Bernie might be 93, but he is still very sharp, but should we take his words at face value? Rgds
Nelson Piquet will probably be silent on this one ..having just been fined $1 milion for dissing Lewis ...
I don't think this will / would go anywhere. You are not going to embarrass or hurt Bernie - he does not have long to live, Hamilton would likely not really fight or benefit much from it, Massa if he is made WDC - gets nothing - and the whole of F-1 becomes a bigger circus of liar's and cheats.... what is really new? For those who don't think the championships are manipulated since around 1992-93 ish... you are fooling your self. once Mosley took over, the whole thing became a huge show for TV money. that is it. before that, there was an element of sport and competition, where having the brains and resources to win mattered... after 93-94 it did not matter. Mosley slowly morphed F1 into a commodity for TV. making lots of Millionaires along the way who were 100% complicit. We who watched and followed along - are also complicit.... all the Schumacher years, of dominance, and shoddy dirty driving etc... technical rules re writes etc... all was from behind the scenes..... Its like the Olympic committee but way worse..... lots of dirty money in and out of F-1 and it continues today. I just like to watch it... its a racing soap opera.
It occurs to me that we should be able to research the rules & statutes that Bernie mentioned, see if there really is anything written that dictates something like "blatant, proven cheating that impacts the outcome of a race means that all points from that race must be nullified ..." ... provided it's known and proven before the end of the season in question
Seen that...he's growing old (well...aren't we all?) and forgot that what would have been considered as "banter" twenty years ago could send you to jail nowadays... (but please forgive me if I think that he should have kept his big mouth shut once again, and cleaned the laundry in private with Lewis should he think he has to question something; I never liked that side of Piquet; I had a great respect for the driver, and what he had achieved, but the rude, gross comments about Senna, about Mansell, etc...always made me think he lacked class; I still think so) Rgds
True. Following F1 made me cynical these last 20 years. I was lucky to follow it in the 60s and 70s, during its Golden Age.
Even though I don't agree with any sort of legal action, and I think it's embarrassing for Massa, the silver lining is this might shine a light over how corrupt the FIA and F1 is and has been for decades. If we only knew the amount of manipulation they have done to get an outcome that grows their business.
Can someone please provide the supposed rule that suggests the 2008 race should have been canceled? This claim keeps getting thrown around, but nobody has provided proof of such a rule. To me this makes zero sense at all. Since when does cheating result in an entire grand prix getting canceled?
If the cheat had be uncovered immediatly, probably that Alonso would have been disqualified from the result, pending more penalties to come for Renault. But I don't think Massa would have been reinstated in any position in the result, since his DNF was caused by a technical failure from Ferrari, causing an unsafe release after refuelling. The Crashgate and Massa DNF aren't related, IMO.
Exactly. Technically speaking, the deliberate crash only brought out a SC that helped Alonso. It was impossible to ensure Alonso would win with 100% certainty because of this crash. There is an infinite amount of possible what ifs that could have happened. All we know is that Renault influenced Piquet to deliberately crash in order to bring out a SC, in order to give Alonso the best chance of winning.
Absolutely. That's what fighters do. The question is whether Massa's a fighter, not whether he should pursue it. You know what Bernie would do ... and win bigly.
Cry Babies do the same thing. Doesn't get what they want, makes any excuse why they didn't get it, then complains and goes to someone in charge until they get what they want. It's a fine line between fighter and cry baby.
