Maybe he's about to change that and go all the way. Much as with Alonso driving a competitive car again it would be great to see. Vamos Felipe baby !!
There would be too many repercussions if the FIA cancelled that race (if they have the right to do it). Not only if would affect the WDC ranking, but possibly the WCC too. Which means that the redistribution money to teams would have to be reviewed perhaps? Doing all this 15 years later is a bit of a pipedream.
It's 2023. Time is ripe. It's all about Massa. Even if he doesn't succeed if he tries 101% he'll be a content and happy man, like Alonso. Does he have it? The comments in that article are not encouraging but hope I'm wrong.
How the FIA found out about Crashgate at Brazil 2008 F1 finale, but could not act Felipe Massa’s revelation that he plans to see if there are legal avenues to challenge the 2008 Formula 1 world championship outcome has re-opened intrigue over that year’s Crashgate controversy. By:Jonathan Noble Apr 5, 2023, 1:34 PM Massa’s actions have been prompted by recent comments from former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone regarding the fall-out from Nelson Piquet Jr’s deliberate crash in the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix that helped his Renault team win. Ecclestone suggested that both he and then FIA president Max Mosley knew about the infamous incident during the 2008 season – so had time to respond before the world title was awarded. In an interview with the F1-Insider website published last month, Ecclestone had said: “We wanted to protect the sport and save it from a huge scandal. That's why I used angelic tongues to persuade my former driver Nelson Piquet to keep calm for the time being. “Back then, there was a rule that a world championship classification after the FIA awards ceremony at the end of the year was untouchable. So, [Lewis] Hamilton was presented with the trophy and everything was fine. “We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions.” Ecclestone’s comments have hinted at a potential cover-up to protect F1 from negative headlines – and are enough for Massa to feel he needs to pursue the matter further. For the Brazilian would have every right to feel aggrieved that, if the FIA did know about it during 2008 when the results of that season could have been changed, then why was it not investigated immediately? A lot of the answer to that question interestingly cropped up a few years ago when Mosley and former F1 race director Charlie Whiting were interviewed for the documentary film Mosley: It’s Complicated, which was released in 2021. While many of their words did not make it in to the film’s final cut, Autosport did see the full-length interviews at the time – and they confirm when the FIA did first know about the matter, and why nothing was done at the time. Brazilian GP confession The revelation that Nelson Piquet Jr did crash deliberately at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix was first told to Whiting at that year’s Brazilian GP – the scene of the title showdown between Massa and Hamilton. As Whiting, who passed away in 2019, explained: “There were a few conspiracy theories after the race, but nothing of any great substance. “But it was in Brazil, and I was talking to Nelson Piquet [Sr]. I was his mechanic for a number of years, and we'd remained good friends. “He came to see me in my office, and we were having a chat. And then, all of a sudden, he shut the door. “He held his foot against the door, so no one could come in, and then told me about what happened in Singapore. It was aimed at Flavio [Briatore] because, basically, the essence of what he was saying was that: 'Flavio made my boy crash.' “I said, ‘wow, this is pretty serious stuff'. I don't know who else he had told but he just said, 'keep it to yourself'. In doing that, he would have known that I would tell Max.” Whiting’s version of events was backed up by Piquet Sr himself at the time, who confirmed to investigators in 2009 when he first informed Whiting. “In Brazil I talk to Charlie,” Piquet was quoted as saying. “I got him and I said 'look, what could happen to Nelson if I bring this up?' And I was afraid to screw up the career of Nelson." The lack of evidence Charlie Whiting, the-then FIA Race Director, was told about Crashgate by Nelson Piquet Sr While Whiting did tell Mosley about what Piquet had said, the FIA steered clear of launching a formal investigation straight away. Reflecting on the reasons for that, Mosley, who was a former barrister, said that despite Piquet Sr’s word, the FIA could not launch charges because there was no concrete proof that Piquet had been told to crash deliberately. “This [Piquet’s chat to Whiting] confirmed what I suspected and it also confirmed what a lot of other people suspected,” Mosley told the film makers. “But of course, I said nothing to anyone. There was no evidence. “Then Nelson Jr was fired by the team [in the summer of 2009]. Nelson Sr came to see me in Monaco, and told me the story. I didn't say I already knew this, I just said that this is terrible.” Mosley explained that it was then he recruited senior investigators to interview Piquet Jr for a formal statement on what happened. But even with that, he felt even that was not enough to launch action. “We had the statement, the signed statement from him,” added Mosley. “But of course that wasn't nearly enough because I knew that, even if I produce this statement with the whole story, and Nelson Jr gave evidence, the defence would be: 'We just fired him. He's just being spiteful. He just trying to cause trouble'.” Spa interviews Alonso had benefitted from Piquet Jr's crash in Singapore Mosley said it was only after the FIA sent the investigators and lawyers to the 2009 Belgian Grand Prix to interview representatives of the Renault team that the governing body finally had enough to work on. He added: “[They were] smuggled into the paddock, because I knew that nobody had to know, not even Bernie, that they were there. Because if Flavio found out, he could have shut the whole thing down.” While those Spa interviews eventually convinced the FIA it had enough to take it to the FIA World Motor Sport Council, they also offered some early insight into just how much Alonso knew. As Mosley said: “The first person they summoned was Alonso, and he denied all knowledge of what had happened. “A lot of people probably think that Alonso knew, but it's interesting that the chief superintendent who had enormous experience at interrogating people, he told me he was convinced Alonso was telling the truth. So that was fine. “But then the next one they summoned was Pat Symonds, because he was one of the four people who had been involved. “And Pat, of course, is a completely honest person. So, when he was asked the obvious question, he said, ‘I can't answer that question.’ “Of course, the minute he said that, that was as good as a confession. So we then summoned Flavio in front of the World Council and the rest is sort of history. They were banned and so on.” While it is clear that the FIA wanted to make sure it had all the evidence it needed before taking action, for Massa, the real question right now will be whether he believes motor racing's governing body could have acted sooner when it first got wind of what had happened.
Yep, Spygate at McLaren in 2007; Crashgate at Renault in 2008, Alonso is each time in the middle of the storm and always came out innocent and smelling of roses. Hummm ...
Pitting so early during the Singapore Gp was completely abnormal. For sure he knew something will happen soon..
If some onlookers at Singapore suspected something was afoot at Renault when Alonso stopped, it's hard to believe he wasn't himself aware of anything once he learnt that his team mate had also crashed.
Good luck to him, wish him all the best. But its extremly unlikely the whole grid will be punished for 1 team breaking the regulations, Only those involved would be punished eg Alonso / Renault being dq'ed for the year, such action would result in LH winning by more points, not losing his title, it would also set precedant and make every regulation break be opened to be challanged, eg redbulls over spend, Ferraris engine, any regulation broken through out history which would just be ridiculous.. Taking that into consideration, Nothing is likely to be done at all. P.S It would open 2007 up for Williams to be dq'ed, if that happens, LH has 2 extra points and finishes 1st removing Kimi from champion.
The article reads like this to me: By Brazil 2008, the FIA had credible accusations but no proof ... so they couldn't launch a formal investigation. Which is, of course, backwards logic. You don't get "proof" before the "investigation" ... you launch an investigation to find evidence that may, or may not, lead to proof. Massa may very well still have a case.
... but i (we) would still like to know if a relevant rule or statute (about nullifying all points for Singapore 2008) actually exists, as Bernie has stated.
It makes you wonder when the plan got created. Fueling Alonso for 12 laps when starting 15th is very unusual, and of course the timing of him pitting early and the a SC car coming out 2 laps later. If this was the plan the whole time, then it had to be done before qualifying, and Alonso deliberately didn't set a time in Q2. If this is true, Alonso had to know about the plan. If the idea to crash Piquet came during the race, then there is no way Alonso would know. IF this legal nonsense happens, and say Alonso gets DQ'd, rightfully so, especially if he knew about it. Then 2007 Hamilton should be DQ'd from the championship as well because he certainly knew of McLaren's cheating scandal. Can't punish Alonso because he got immunity for his whistle blowing. The chaos it would cause to be able to "legally" change the results of so many races that are in the past.
In next weeks news: Hill is suing to rightfully be giving the 94 Championship as Benetton had an illegal car and Schumacher still had to punt him to steal it. Alonso is suing Ron Dennis for not giving team orders to keep LCH behind him. Alan Prost is contesting the 88 championship as he actually scored more points than Senna, but dropped scores cost him the championship. Alan Prost is also appealing the decision to end the 84 Monaco race early giving him half points for the win rather than full points for second costing him the championship. I had a lot of respect for Massa for the way he handled it at the time, but it's all gone with this farce.
Alonso must have known that Renault planned for an early refuelling stop, because he certanly didn't start the race with full tank. Starting the race with a lighter car can be a strategy to gain places in the early laps, mostly if you didn't qualify too well. But the timing of the first stop is crucial. Then, there is hoping that a safety car period will "protect" you later on. And by a "miracle", an act of God if you believe it, 2 laps later Nelsinho hit the wall. Then the safety car came out. Alonso is bright, he must have understood at that moment what was going on, even if he wasn't part of the plot.
"Considering" filing a lawsuit is not the same as "Filing" a lawsuit... Perhaps Massa should "consider" suing his pitcrew also....
Hypothetically speaking IF, and that's a HUGE IF, the 2008 Championship gets overturned and they nullify the Singapore2008 race thereby Massa wins the 2008 WDC title due to recent events, then by what you're saying(Abu Dhabi 2021) would also get cancelled....and yet Max would still win the 2021 WDC title. (Max won 9 races over the course of the season versus Hamilton's 8 races being that they were tied in points going into Abu Dhabi)
https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/917D67F70F1C5EE7C12573B7003DCEC5/$FILE/CSI%20modif%20ap%20AGO%20oct%2007%20ANG%20-%20Applic.%2001.01.08%20-%20clean.pdf international sporting code https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/475632E46002BEDAC125744F004312F4/%24FILE/F1.SPORTING.REGULATIONS.19-05-2008.pdf sporting code Ive not seen any thing yet. Your welcome to look. Only thing ive found on penaltys is 153. Scale of penalties Penalties may be inflicted as follows in order of increasing severity : − reprimand (blame); − fines; − time penalty; − exclusion; − suspension; − disqualification. Time penalty means a penalty expressed in minutes and/or seconds. Any one of the above penalties can only be inflicted after an enquiry has been held and, in case of one of the last three, the concerned party must be summoned to give them the opportunity of presenting their defence. For the FIA Formula One World Championship and the FIA World Rally Championship, a penalty consisting of the withdrawal of points over the whole of the Championship may be imposed. Nothing about invalidating races for one teams actions, So far.
Why are you even talking about that?? That's not the point. Point is, a race was rigges, the FIA knew about it and didn't do anything, alowing the wrong guy to win the title. It's as simple as that.
