The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

My my, by Jove, Steven, Can't you tell 'tongue in cheek'?

OK, it is a fake, not an authentic really original, replica wannabee, perhaps, if you maybe, possibly, want it to be
whatever you want. AKA FAKE. OK? Yes, it is rather the fake car. I never said it was real, or even close. I ignore where you get that.

I am too ignorant, and do not have a clue to call it a FAKE, as lack the agility to perform the 'acid test' on it, or the metal analyzer, or the keys to the garage.
So what?

Brexit has really pulled one on you Brits

Regards, Alberto

 

He tried. Didn’t work.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

One of many misconceptions we can dispense with, straight away: this mistaken notion that the current owner "doesn't care" if the car is authentic or not.

The burden of proof is on the owner of a car sold & bought as a replica, to "prove" the extraordinary claim that it is, to everyone's surprise, a period-correct, authentic car. In this case, the current owner has spent a lot of time, and a lot of money, to convince the world of its authenticity ... an effort which, if i understand correctly, continues to this day (although maybe not here on Fchat, where the audience is more, shall we say ... educated).

But so far, the burden of proof has most definitely NOT been met. Therefore, the car remains a replica ... just as the previous owner claimed it to be.

 

yes sir...

it's unfortunate that some people would rather attack the person presenting the evidence rather than objectively evaluate the evidence itself.

It's important to acknowledge the overwhelming evidence that suggests this is a replica / ******* fake car.

It's essential to be objective and impartial when evaluating claims and evidence, particularly when it comes to investments as significant as classic cars.

It's always better to err on the side of caution and do your due diligence before calling a lemon a lime.

Therefore I suggest never trusting this person ever again.

 

From page 1 of this 20 year old thread lol.

Looking at the post count, any idea why this user was/is banned? I remember him having history on all enzo's I think.

Regards.

 

#10951 "Brexit has really pulled one on you Brits " Eh!?

I'll use Dominic Frisby's comment on that issue, and hope this doesn't escalate any further.

This might be relevant too:

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You sound like the one with the problem. 7 day thread ban and 24 hour site ban.

 

Sending that to my ex wife!

 

If the owner states it's a replica, it is most definitely a replica. If the owner states there is one shred of originality here or there, or in several areas, then the owner has created, like a good attorney, mud, and left it entirely up the the beholder, who may or may not be willing to perform the work required to properly investigate those issues, at least making an argument for it having ambiguous value i.e. not just replica value. Wrong? That too is up to the trier of fact.

 

Back in the early days of Ferrari Classiche they absolutely certified a replica of an early P car for a ultra well connected Italian collector. Since another well known car with the same chassis number existed elsewhere and had a paper trail back to a tragic accident and contained all the surviving parts to the original other than a spare engine and transmission it made a mockery of the entire classiche process. What it did prove was that certainly then it mattered as much about who the client was as much as what the car was and its connection with the original. Since then we have seen at least one very early Ferrari recreated out of not much at very great expense, although at least it didn't replicate an existing vehicle. Classiche may not always be the best judge of what is or isn't original!

 

The owner who actually built the car states it's a replica and yes it most definitely is a replica. The subsequent owner has attempted, and still attempts to distort Ferrari history, but has failed.

All the mud the subsequent owner created has been washed away as somebody has actually properly investigated ALL the issue and proven with all the evidence in the links here that the car is a total fake with a 3 litre 312 F1 engine.

Your post is gobbledegook.

 

You make assumptions that people are both intelligent and do their homework. The answer to both is: sometimes.

 

I was going to go with, "rarely."

 

I just was making the point that if a well connected owner had the means, and some parts from the car in question were used, anything goes. Money talks, you can get almost anything with money and connections.

 

And yet Glik, as a connected, wealthy, long time Ferrari client with cars including a one off P4/5 still doesn’t have a classiche book for his David Piper built replica. Kinda says everything that needs to be said.

 

That is true. I imagine he hasn't tried to get it certified because he could care less if people think it's real, a replica or something between. He can think of it what he wishes because it's his car. He probably doesn't feel the need to get Classiche involved.

Perry

 

You couldn't be more wrong, and on all your points.

 

No parts from the car in question were used. No, you can't almost get anything with money and connections. Some people live in cloud cuckoo land.

 

I assume nothing and only know that I have done my homework.

 

If the above statement is considered to be factual, then where is the evidence of the accident damage? Or is your statement just gobbledegook?

 

Steve is correct on this. He continues to display the car with himself and the promotions for the event making the false claim.

 

You want to hang on some possible damage that could have happened at any time during the ownership of DP002 as the "proof" of a connection to the real car? You really need to get a far better grasp of the body of evidence and the knowledge of who actually built this chassis.

 

Certainly in the early days Classiche would take a good, original car that wasn't matching numbers and remove the non matching engine, trans or whatever and build an entirely new one at great cost, this would then be stamped with the original chassis # and marked with a classiche star. A good SWB had an all new engine fitted at several hundred grand back in 07/08 using this process. Jim could have that process repeated and they would remove the entire chassis and anything else Classiche could make money out of ahem decided wasn't original and rebuild it better than new, front to back for him and then give it a red book. That would be neither better nor worse than how the car sits, but entirely different, and would cost millions.

 

Absolute rubbish!!! There is nothing real or original from the real 0846 in this complete fake. Ferrari would never do it. Never ever back at the start of Classiche or now.

 

oh I agree you’ve done outstanding work on this. Possibly the finest forensic review of anything I’ve ever seen. You have zero doubts from me on this thing. I just know people are people though and will often believe whatever pleases their inner narrative, and money talks