360 F1 shifting problems on 360

Oh man, you came to the right place! Sit tight, some real experts are going to be along soon. You are probably going to need an OBD tool to be able to answer the questions, I use the Launch X431, others use the Autel. You may want to preemptively investigate one.

 

I will PM you to see if I can help .. BTW what year 360 ? Unfortunately only very late model 360's and 360 CS's can be read by the most affordable tools and like Mark stated above it will probably be necessary have a diag tool

 

Ok call me ..number is in PM

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Your car should be new enough where the TCU can be read with a cheaper diagnostic tool. There are a lot of parameters that can be out and not throw a code or an F1 light. Someone who REALLY knows the F1 system should be able to tell what is out. Could be worth the $200 for an hour of their time. My shifting issues turned out to be a leaking clutch solenoid in my F1 system. Never threw a light so I thought little of it until I started getting grinds in my shifts. Once I rebuilt the power unit, it shifted completely different fr from the 10k miles I put on it. That being said, I believe the parameters I mentioned are in the service manual. If you are adamant on diying it, I would get a scanner that can read your TCU and go over all of the parameters.

 

We've been using a Leonardo diagnostic tool, it gave us the following error codes from the TCU: P1741 Engagement Potentiometer, P1710 clutch position sensor, both of those sensors were replaced (and selection potentiometer) when the clutch was replaced and worked fine for about 500 miles with no issues at all, also the TCU will show readings from the selection and engagement sensors that move as you change gears (I don't know what the range is to verify proper limits) but did perform a self adjustment test successfully. We cleaned all the pins on the TCU and the connectors for both potentiometers. It seems to have the shifting problem when the car warms up and if you keep driving the errors go out on thier own and the car will begin shifting normally again. Someone suggested that maybe there is a ground wire or something in common with these 3 sensors that could be causing them to intermittently act up, I haven't had a chance to look into this yet. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

 

Sounds like a pressure issue .. monitor realtime data (pressures) while you drive and experience the issues

The pressure issue can be caused by a weak relay, pump, accumulator etc

The other thing to look at is the clutch solenoid

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Have you verified that the parameters that the scanner tells you about the F1 system are all in spec like the solenoid leakage rates?

 

Ok, we just installed a new pump, accumulator and relay last week and bled the system. How do you check the clutch solenoid?

 

I haven't looked at the leakage rates yet but that's a good idea to check, usually if it's leaking it's a consistent problem not intermittent but definitely worth checking the next time I hook up the scanner. I did check the bleed screws on the actuator when I changed the clutch and they were all tight. I haven't seen anything else out of parameter yet and no other error codes. Are there any other items in the system that can fail when they get hot?

 

Either leakage rate on diag tool ..or a simple timing test..

Turn key on (engine off) and let me know how long pump runs and stays off ..let it cycle at least 2 times

Repeat with key on engine on

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did you ever find the problem?

 

Isn’t there a relay that has to be upgraded?


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Not yet, I will troubleshoot it some more next week, finishing up a 355 engine out service now.

I put a new F1 relay in, not sure if it needs to be upgraded. At the moment I don't think the relay is the problem though.

 

Please see my post above and report back with timings..maybe i can help

If you would like you can PM for my number to speak on phone as well

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Ok thank you. Yes I will post the timings as soon as I get them. Thanks again!

 

I will let Alan or Brady close this out officially but the end issue was one of the potentiometers was failing.

What made this journey long was the disbelief that 3 brand new sensors either failed within a few hundred miles or were defective right of box. This disbelief cause us to do more diagnosis thinking "how can it be"

Lessons learned:

Never assume new parts are good
Test sensors before final install since the work to replace sensors is sizable

You can just connect sensor to car and while rotating sensor check live data


PS ..given the frustration of shipping delays, QC, and price we are considering creating a few sets of sensors to have on hand and/or possibly sell to the community



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I’m interested in hearing more about how brand new sensors could be bad, and also how specifically to test the sensors before completing the install. I’ve never replaced mine, but I have internal seals leaking from my actuator onto one of the potentiometers. In between now and the time I have the actuator rebuilt, I’ve always wondered when and if that leak could take out the potentiometer. I always assumed it would be a simple swap, but it sounds from your description that this would not be the case?

Thanks

 

Just like you hard to believe but true ..sensor was bad out of box

This also happened to another person I was helping in a f430 ..right out of the box ..and a different sensor altogether

The way to test ..is connect to car , turn key on , using diag tool monitor "travel for selection or engagement" parameters while you twist the sensor pot

It is easy swap once you get actuator off .. that is where the work is ..moving cats, removing bumper etc

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Thanks

Dominick

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Oh I didn’t know your had to take the actuator off to change the sensors. That’s a whole other ball of wax…

 

Al,

Thank you very much for the kind words ..i am humbled. It was truly a team effort. I am so happy you are able to finally enjoy the car. I love to help as much as I can. Brady and you were my hands , eyes and ears on the ground ...that is the most important thing when you want to diagnose a problem. Brady and you have patience i have not seen in a while. We all learned something as we went along. It was my pleasure to get on the phone with such nice people .. i actually looked forward to it [emoji4].



If you ever need me again please reach out

Thanks again

Dominick

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