355 355 throttle position sensor

Correct Ian, it’s 5V.
What I could find, the 2.7 ECU allows for a 50mv variance in the voltages. I adjusted mine to 580mv on both sides at closed throttle and graphed the sweep up to WOT. As long as the throttle linkages are balanced the graphs were identical. I used aftermarket TPS’s. the difference in idle and overall running was chalk and cheese.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Meaning ???

 

Much smoother idle and no flat spot.

 

Just to expand a little.
My car suffered with quite an uneven idle, but also after a long downhill with no throttle, when you applied the throttle, there was quite a bad flat spot. Once I balanced them, it's gone.
Also when cruising with the throttle just cracked, one bank would hunt. This cured it.

 

I have been unable to find the Bosch 005 TPS and it would seem to be necessary because it has 2 connection options, each at an angle so it could be used on the right or left bank I guess. Anyway, my connector can not come from directly below. The 005 came on the engine and I have no idea if it was OE for the model that I have ( don't know the year or model but it was sourced in Europe and installed in England). Most of the folks on chat either have an 001 or an 004 ( I don't know the difference and have tried to contact Bosch with no satisfaction). Is anyone out there using the 005 and, if so, what can you tell me about your car and any availability info. I am not having a problem but would like to have one on hand. Thanks

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

You have an F1 car Bosch TPS fitted rather than one for a gated car. This needs two plugs: One plug goes to the (only) Motronic ECU on an F1 car and the other plug goes to the F1 Transmission Control Unit. I don't know which is which. On all non-F1 cars (2.7 or 5.2), the TPS only has one plug. The 2.7 car has two TPS's, one for each bank.

There are only two Ferrari part numbers for these cars (F1 and non-F1), so I can't say why there are 3 different Bosch part numbers. Also, I'm not sure of the wiring on the two-plug type. We have found discrepancies between the wiring diagrams and the real (non-F1) car (relating to wiring), so you'd have to do basic continuity checks on the pins to see what the internal wiring is doing. If the car is working properly, then I guess you have the right plug (or it doesn't matter which plug you use).

Here's one diagram I have for the F1 car, but it doesn't list the pin numbers.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
If you assume the pin numbers on the plugs read from left to right, then it would matter which plug you chose to hook up your wiring to.

The B plug goes to the F1 TCU. But I don't know for sure which is plug B on an F1 car.

Unfortunately, the diagram above seems to disagree with the following diagram (a diagram based on the real plug of a non-F1 car).

Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sorry for the fine print.
The diagram directly above shows values for the potentiometer and its internal resistors. It's not a simple potentiometer, but has resistors with two different values on the 3 legs.

Anyway, I digress. That doesn't help with your issue

 

BTW, if you have some free time, perhaps you could do wiring checks for us? If there are pin numbers marked on each plug (1, 2, 3) or (A, B, C), we should be able to figure out if each pin has the same function.

Are the pin numbers on the plugs labelled 1, 2, 3 & 1, 2, 3 or 3, 2, 1 & 1, 2, 3 or some other variation?

(EDIT: Just found this photo)

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

And this photo

Image Unavailable, Please Login
3-2-1

 

Thank you for your research and understanding of the systems. Far better than mine. For some reason my arrangement does not require the transmission connection is not needed/used but as you can see in my photo, that the cam phasing sensor is not used as well. My supposition was that with the combination of a crank sensor, and the cam phasing sensor, the ignition system would not need to be the wasted spark type. What are your thoughts?
Glad to find out the model of my car (F1).
I have the 6 speed gearbox and am assuming that the F1 was different? Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I have not seen a 355 like yours ...

 

Sorry, can't help you with this. I've seen your numerous previous questions on this and our collective wisdom seems to have failed you.

There are very few internal differences (apart from a sensor or two). The F1 system mostly just drives external linkages, mimicking the gated system. As you say, the TPS on your car may simply have been chosen because the angled plug didn't interfere with the vacuum(?) plumbing.

I don't have any hands-on experience on the F1 car, so I don't know if there are any easy ways to check if you have a modified F1 gearbox. There is a sensor under the gearbox on an F1 car (easy to see on your car), but the sensor mounting plate can simply be replaced with the flat coverplate found on a gated car. You couldn't tell from this.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I'll look but I don't think that I have that sensor. I wish that I knew more about the origins of the car. A guy named Arnie DuLard built the car to an unfinished state for about 7 years in England. A group in Mesa Arizona acquired the car and finished the details. I bought the car about 3 years ago and have been on my own. I would like to take the car to Sonoma and Laguna Seca for the fun of experiencing those great tracks as I have with my 58 Scarab replica and a Panoz GTS etc. but the shifting is difficult a does not lend itself for gating (there is just an open hole in the right side sill). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Is your gearbox a manual or an F1?

 

It's a 6 speed manual. I not familiar with the features/details of the F1. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Oh, I should add that the shifting arrangement has been changed from mechanical linkage to cable so that the shifter could be mounted in the right hand sill like the P4 was. This may be some of my shifting problem.

 

Here's a photo taken of the bottom of my car and the F1 trans sensor port seems to be blocked. I guessing at this point that I could probably use one of the other TPS models (001 or 004) for my engine ECU . I may try one. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So far as I know, the only differences between the F1 and manual gearboxes is the F1 has stronger shift forks and a shorter gear selector input shaft. This is the pecker that sticks out from the front of the box that the shift linkage bolts onto. It's something like 1" longer on the manual.

Re the TPS, I didn't realize they were different between F1 and manual. This probably doesn't help understand the wiring, but my car (converted to manual) has never thrown a code or had any problem related to the TPS. I completely removed the F1 wiring harnesses and TCU.

 

I didn't realise. Do you mean these?

Image Unavailable, Please Login

When my tech was looking at my car, he thought my gated gearbox casing looked like it had come from an F1 car (so there must be other visible external signs). I also found an F1 engine harness on my car (which I changed to a manual harness after wiring damage had been found). I did start to think that my car had been converted, but it's missing other tell-tale signs (e.g. the engine frame is different on F1 cars). Also, the delivery paperwork all looks correct. Perhaps later F355's all switched to a common gearbox casing? Not sure about the engine harness though.

 

Yes those are the forks.

Very strange re the wiring harness. It's possible the car started out on the line as an F1 and they switched. The F1 harness is just zip-tied into the car. Snip snip (and lower the gas tank) and all of it removes cleanly. What I learned doing the conversion is that Ferrari never truly made an F1 355. They're all manual cars with the F1 stuff added on, sometimes a little comically. The rectangular cutout in the center tunnel for the gear shift housing is sealed up on the F1 car with a flimsy piece of metal and black RTV.

 

My wiring harness may have just been an indication of what was to come later. The 360 and later cars seem to have universal wiring harnesses. The 360, for example, has lots of unused plugs on the main harnesses. i.e. the F1 car has unused plugs which would have been used on the gated car and vice versa.

I'd be curious to know if any other late model gated F355 owners have an unused 4 pin plug on their ECU harness (close to the ECU).

 

If you find out what other external physical differences there are to the F1 gearbox I would like to know so that I can further discern what components I have in my system. If the gearbox input shaft "pecker" is a different length I would like to know which is which so I can measure what I have.
Is it possible that my shifting is difficult because a transition from F1 to 6 speed was not done correctly?
Thanks.

 

No, not at all. They are all but identical gearboxes. The "F1" box is the manual box, just shifted by an external actuator. If you are having shifting problems it's either something internal to the box (unlikely) or because your linkage isn't set up right (far more likely).

 

I'm surprised that you didn't mention the oil. A good number of chatters have switched around trying to improve their shifting. I don't know what was in the gearbox when I got the car but I changed it out to Redline 70W90 NS based on some of the recommendations. I'm told that they all shift with some degree of difficulty and may that's why there's an oil warming system necessary.

 

I just realised what my tech may have been talking about.... i.e. the engine oil pan rather than the gearbox casing

Image Unavailable, Please Login
The engine oil pan has holes for studs where the F1 hydraulic actuator sits. Of course, your engine may not have come with the gearbox.

 

Can you explain a bit more? I'm also trying to eliminate that flat spot. What aftermarket throttle sensor did you use? Was that a part of the solution or you simply balanced the throttle bodies and that fixed the issue?