Massa to file legal action on 2008 title?

If you look at his comments he's saying he wanted to challenge it back in 2008 but others told him he can't do anything.
Hope he doesn't make the same mistake again, and perseveres despite what others tell him - there'll be plenty of powerful forces stacked
against him.

And you're right, whether he gets the actual WDC or not, he can win the public opinion and be at peace with himself.

 

The difference between winners and losers is perseverance, grit, never giving up, going beyond your limits, infinite power.

 

Under the carpet? They found out about it on the 30th of August 2009, less than 2 weeks later, Renault and co had been investigated and punished according to the rules, the only person who escaped punishment was Alonso, it was also well covered by the media..

How is that sweeping it under the carpet? It was sorted quicker than Sainzs last race appeal..... Months and months faster than 21... weeks faster than Willaims... Months faster than Mclaren

No one knew about it till 2009 on the 30th of August when Piq came out after being sacked and told Brasil media......

Before this date ( 30 th August 2009 ), the only thing any body knew was that some one crashed, and Ferrari messed up its pitstop, and in the last few races, Massa STILL couldnt take the title. If he finished better at Japan / China, then he might have had it in his hands, but he didnt..... Its not like some rogue race director manipulated the last lap of the last race of the deciding championship race of a seson long championship battle.

 

I'll repeat my perspective, fwiw ..

IF Ecclestone is right on these two points: the FIA knew of the scandal in 2008, and there was a rule/statute in effect that should have erased all Singapore points ... THEN Massa has a case.

IF Ecclestone is wrong, THEN Massa has no case. It's pointless to question any past season, with information that only materializes after the season is done.


I've looked a little bit, as i'm sure others have ... and i haven't found the statute that Ecclestone references (point #1). Of course, I have no way of researching whether or not the FIA knew of the scandal during the 2008 season (point #2), but i don't think anyone here can state, with certainty, that the FIA had no knowledge of the scandal until 2009.

 

Bernie says you're wrong. Pitstop or anything else F / Massa did are irrelevant.

Massa made the mistake of not pursuing it. Hope he doesn't make the same mistake again.

 

Bernie's always right.

 

Bernie's always ... wealthy

He doesn't merely have F-U money ... he's got enough wealth to say anything, to anyone, anytime, without a care in the world

 

There is a big difference between what you know and what you can prove.

There are reports of Piquet Sr. telling Bernie and/or Mosley about it prior to the end of the season, but that's just hearsay. It wasn't until Jr was fired from Renault did he officially come out with his statement. How far could the FIA go based on the comments of an angry dad? That's a good question. There is a mountain of unknowns we never be privileged to find out.

 

And he has that because he's smart, sharp and cunning.
Like he told Brundle: I was a better used car dealer than you.

Bernie's the perfect antidote for today's 'complications'.

 

Please allow me a moment or two, to tell you guys more about my Singapore 2008 experience ...

First, a bit about one of my old friends and F1 travel companions "FE". Life-long F1 fan, huge Ferrari fan, and an even bigger fan of Michael Schumacher. FE is German, as it happens, and was born in Michael's home town (Cologne). The sun absolutely rose & set on Michael ... i only ever saw FE cry twice: once, at his marriage (in Florence), and once when Schumacher announced his retirement from F1. Not kidding.

His love for Ferrari and Michael was only matched by his hatred for one Flavio Briatore. I mean, a passionate hatred. Maybe, because Briatore was always surrounded by beautiful women. It will forever be one of life's unsolvable injustices, we must all agree, that such a fat slob as Briatore could get such hot women. Oh well.

So we travel to F1's first night race in Singapore. If you haven't been, the one thing that "sticks" with you is humidity. HIGH humidity. 80%-at-night kind of humidity. It's a jungle, out there!

Anyway, we all know how the race went. After the race, (next day, maybe) we're flying to the Maldives ... and who's there with us, in business (or first) class, but Fernando Alonso (with a smokin hottie ... i mean scalding). FE wouldn't say a word to Alonso ... something about that race was really bugging him. But i congratulated Alonso ... he accepted, and thanked me, but he was not "beaming" as one might expect. In fact, he kinda looked away "sheepishly". FE was watching, and when i returned to my seat, he was like "SEE! I'm tellin' you there's something fishy about that accident ... " Very true story.

(Yes, by the way, Maldives really IS paradise. Heaven on Earth. But very limited cell service in 2008 ... during, as luck would have it, one of the worst financial crises in modern times. Story for another day LoL)

Take-aways? Alonso really did seem a bit "guilty" (take that with a grain of salt). But if a life-long F1 fan (my friend) saw something suspicious that night in Singapore 2008 (even clouded as his judgement may have been, by his hatred for Briatore) ... is it really such a stretch to imagine that the FIA knew something was "off", well before 2009?

Anyway, a little more background on why i, for one, wouldn't mind some more daylight shed on that crazy F1 night race in 2008.

 

About 10 yeas ago in Rome one of the most beautiful women I've seen was with a short, fat, bald, film director. And she was very much in love.

That's great. Big plus for (real) men that (real) women can see beyond appearances and vice versa.
Life is Great.

 

Ironic, isn't it ? Without Flavio Briatore, there may never have been a Michael Schumacher !

 

That reminds me of an anecdote about Pablo Casals, the very talented Spanish composer and concert cellist..
At 80 years old, Casals announced to his entourage that he was now engaged to his pupil Maria Montanez; she was 20.
To someone who asked him if it was wise to marry with such an age difference, Casals replied:
"I put it that way; if she dies, she dies".
Casals lived until 96.

 

Reality: If she has a lover, she has a lover.

That type of crazy age diff stuff is just ... weird.

 

This legal process is gaining traction.

Massa lawyers seeking lost compensation.(in the tens of millions of dollars).

 

I wonder who is behind this. Could it be a veiled effort to push Lewis back to 6 WDC and make him two championships away from eclipsing Michael's record? On the other hand, Massa has nothing else going for him in his life, so why not?

 

Ridiculous and embarrassing from Felipe.

Massa didn't lose the title in Singapore. He lost it spinning off the road in Silverstone and Sepang, and scoring no points. He simply let the title fall into the hands of Hamilton, and that is 100% on him.

His refusal to accept the luck he made for himself and move on with his life is pitiful, frankly.

 

I don't think Massa will have the 2008 title reverted to him by the FIA.
Instead his lawyers are going for the financial compensation for negligence from the organisers.

 

Embarrassing either way.

 

If, 15 years after the fact, Massa does get awarded the 2008 WDC (chances are 99.9999% that won’t happen), the 2021 title will be in the courts until 2100.

 

As they should, given the apparently LUCID statements by Bernie himself! Those thinking Massa should not pursue this should read and contemplate Bernie's statements he emphasizes as facts! We had a rule - Bernie says.

Damage was done, both to Massa and the sport, that sweltering evening! The pursuit of remedy, justice, for this is warranted.

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/massa-steps-up-legal-challenge-over-lost-2008-f1-world-title/10508510/

Massa steps up legal challenge over lost 2008 F1 world title
Felipe Massa has stepped up his legal battle over losing the 2008 Formula 1 world championship by sending a letter to the FIA and F1 laying out the details of his impending claim.

By:Filip Cleeren
Co-author:Guilherme Longo
Aug 17, 2023 at 7:21 PM
In April Massa signalled his intention to take legal action against the results of the 2008 F1 world championship, which he lost out to McLaren's Lewis Hamilton by a single point.

Massa acted on information from former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, who suggested that knowledge of the controversial 2008 Singapore GP 'crashgate' was available early enough for action to be taken before the result of the championship was made final.

In March Ecclestone was quoted in an interview by F1-insider saying the result of the Singapore race, in which Nelson Piquet Jr deliberately crashed to helped Renault team-mate Fernando Alonso win, could have been thrown out, which would have swung the title race in favour of the Ferrari driver.

Instead, the controversy was only formally investigated the following year, meaning it was too late to go back and amend the race or championship result.

After assembling a legal team Massa has now sent a so-called Letter Before Claim to the FIA and FOM, which sets out the details of the case the Brazilian intends to pursue in court.

According to the document, which Autosport has had access to, Massa's defence alleges that the Brazilian was "the victim of a conspiracy", with the FIA and FOM deliberately failing to take action even after becoming aware of the case.

The letter, addressing F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali and FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem, alleges that the two bodies' "motive to avoid a scandal" has cost the now 42-year-old Brazilian tens of millions of euros in lost earnings and bonuses.

"Simply put, Mr Massa is the rightful 2008 Driver's Champion, and F1 and FIA deliberately ignored the misconduct that cheated him out of that title," states the letter.

"Mr Massa is unable to fully quantify his losses at this stage but estimates that they are likely to exceed tens of millions of Euros. This amount does not cover the serious moral and reputational losses suffered by Mr Massa."

The letter goes on to state that if there is no significant response within two weeks, the lawyers are instructed to start legal proceedings.

Intriguingly, Ecclestone has now said he could not remember giving the interview that led to Massa's legal campaign and added that he hasn't been approached by Massa or his legal team to verify his comments.

"I don't remember any of this, to be honest," the 92-year-old told Reuters. "I don't remember giving the interview for sure."

It remains to be seen whether or not Massa's team has a realistic avenue to challenge the 15-year-old championship result.

The FIA's International Sporting Code does not allow protests after a race and any right to request a review expires 14 calendar days after a competition – and four days prior to the date of that year's FIA prize-giving ceremony.

Furthermore, the FIA's judicial system is clear that the highest authority to make any ruling is the independent International Court of Appeal, and that any persons involved in a championship agree to abide by this.

In theory Massa could seek out the views of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), but it has no jurisdiction over the FIA on the matter.

The FIA statutes dictate that the CAS may only be involved in issues relating to the FIA's Anti-Doping Disciplinary Committee.

At the time of writing the FIA was unavailable for comment when approached by Autosport.

Additional reporting by Erick Gabriel

 

So...if Bernie KNEW all of this, why didn't he do something about it at the time?
Being the owner of F1 and all that....

After Bernie resusitated this cluster**** with his interview, he now pleads "old age" and doesn't remember saying anything?

This is total BS and Massa should be ashamed of himself. It was 15 years ago, it's a very bad look for him, IMO.

 

As far as my memory is correct, and depending under which rule of Law it would be judged...
For the case to be considered, Massa and his lawyers would need a written testimony, an affidavit, possibly a "swear under serment in front of the court" from Bernie. If this starts with Bernie saying "I don't remember this interview", well...the only winners will be the lawyers, who will get paid in the end.

Rgds

 

Good.