The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Thank you. Your comment is very much appreciated.

 

I'm not hanging on to anything. Not my car.

But in the realm of a thorough investigation, that covers "all" the issues, seems to be that this is at least one that hasn't been covered. And as any one knows, an investigation follows the leads. And follows them where they lead. Not just the ones that lead them where they want.

As I've said. Not saying the chassis survived. Vegas odd are pretty favorable by the pictures alone that this is not the remains of 0846.

But, I would not call that investigation thorough when it comes to an object that has this potential worth. In an actual court of law, there are many aspects of the pictures argument that could be picked apart IMO. Not gonna waste my time on that.

But you always bring up the experts. And I would have to believe David Piper is expert number one if he built, or commissioned the chassis to be built.

So, Piper claims he built the chassis from scratch. That's his word. No real evidence of the build of it etc. But everyone takes that as Piper indeed built it from scratch, believe me. OK, fine.

But yet, there is very little known of the history of this chassis. How it was damaged. How it was modified.

Just seems odd to me, that all these experts know so much, but yet very little is known from what seems to me to be, the most important expert of them all.

 

For the hundredth time, in a court of law (or any venue of science, logic and reason) the burden is not on the side arguing in favor of "replica" ... replica status is already established, by the seller. The burden of proof rests with the side making the unexpected, extraordinary claim of authenticity. So far, there is a mountain of compelling evidence to cast serious, significant doubt on any such claims of authenticity ... and that's all that anyone needs to know, to conclude that the car is indeed a replica.

We simply don't need to know the precise genesis of the replica chassis. The exact metal used in the replica, the exact place where all bolts were purchased to assemble the replica, how the replica got scratched or dented, what type of paint was used on the replica ... it is all irrelevant. NONE of it needs to demonstrated, established or "proven".

"NOT 0846" is all that anyone needs to know, or care about. And "NOT 0846" has been, and remains, established ... by the seller, by the understanding of the buyer at time of purchase, and by the failure (after how many decades?) to prove otherwise.

 

That you do not know who fabricated the chassis does not mean that who did is a mystery.

Not all the knowledge on the details are on FerraiChat. If one is too lazy to do some research on their own instead of waiting for spoon fed answers here, that is their own problem.

 

Not to mention the absurdity of attributing any old damage of a Piper built and campaigned race car to a Targa crash or other incidents associated with 0846‘s history. We’re to believe for some reason someone saved only those damaged bits to build a race chassis when they didn’t keep a single other part from the car! It’s idiotic on its own, and when coupled with the mountain of other proof it steps beyond ludicrous.

 

Vincent Vangool back again to demonstrate how very little he knows about this subject. If he'd done the slightest bit of research, he'd know that there is no damage on the Piper/Glickenhaus Silvano Cantelli built chassis apart from a slight nick on a tube on the other side of the chassis that would have been damaged on the real car, if there was any damage at all. Mr Glickenhaus was asked many times to show the damaged and burned tubes but he never did show any.

Also, the Piper/Glickenhaus fake Silvano Cantelli built chassis has not actually been modified at all. Rather than modify the chassis, as was done on the real 0846, to properly fit the 3 litre 312 F1 cross bolt mount engine (NB not 4 litre 330 P4 engine) from the originally fitted projecting lug engine, it just uses bolt on adaptors to very improperly and very unsafely mount the engine. A solution that Ferrari would never have used, ever!

 

If this car were real there would be a judge shutting down this thread for erroneous claims, I'm still waiting for Jim to sue someone or everyone, I assume he knows when he does the courts will deem his car a fake and him a fraud.

 

See post 10730 here.

 

The IAC/PFA ruled on this car long, long ago. That is why it is incapable of being judged at any event that they are part of.

 

What was the IAC/PFA ruling on the car?

 

Not allowed for judging.

 

Irrespective of chassis numbers…I wonder what percentage or how much of the car are original Ferrari parts/components?

 

Just the same, money and connections make a lot of doors open. In the proper quantities, almost anything is possible.

Perry

 

Not even billionaire Mr Glickenhaus has that much money to magic a total and now notorious fake into genuine Ferrari 330 P3/4 #0846, the long lost winner of the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona. Ferrari are not interested in those types of shenanigans. He is not that well connected with Ferrari either. He hasn't been a particularly great customer of theirs over the years, unlike a couple of honorable Fchatters that I know, who have had good connections buying their cars for decades and having some very notable cars properly restored by Classiche. But these people I speak of are respectful of Ferrari history, and wouldn't even think of trying to get a fake authenticated by Ferrari and attempt to distort Ferrari history as Mr Glickenhaus continues to do.

 

Not to pile on or to diminish having a multimillion dollar net worth (inherited or other), but Jim is nowhere near a billionaire.

carry on…

 

i ran out of popcorn a long time ago.

 

hard to believe that anybody with half a brain could believe it is anything but a replica.

 

How much of it is, or are Ferrari components?

What ever it is….It’s damn good.

Aside from its being or not being 0846, it’s still an amazing car.

I know that’s not been the focus here, but maybe it ought to be.

 

I don't think you will find a single thread on the entire 440 pages where anyone actually ever derides the car.

It is the human element, solely associated with the current owner, and his beliefs/wants/needs for it to be something else.

 

I once met him at the opening /press day of the Geneva Auto show, on March 8, 2017 when he was showcasing / ...boating, his creation, and to be realistically accurate,
when approached by a "commoner" of my ilk, he was neither polite nor pleasant, Actually the word "dismissive" rings a bell. There are more adjectives, but nsfw on this chat.
He is where is because of his $, potentially mediocre movies, and daddyums, not by his finesse or class.

I remember a few years ago his "grandiose" arrival at Villa d' Este by water, and he played the part showing his P4/5, I believe. The sad part, is that only few were taken aback,
yet, the pathetic part, is that he is no one to write home about. The best part, were the comments by the Intelligentsia that was there, his ears are still ringing...
"Che stronzo", ( a very symbolical Italian description) was widely heard. Please look it up.

Just another small "Richard"....came to show.

Why so much adulation? Very simple, he stands out.

Regards, Alberto

 

I met him once many years ago at Americana. I am nobody. He was very polite to me and my daughter (she was probably about 6 at the time). Different time, I suppose.

 

Possibly, your daughter helped in the equation...

Regards, Alberto

 

Love it.