Hamilton deserves more respect

In 2017 Ferrari started the season with the best car, winning the first race, at the 2nd he got stuck behind DR and then later KR in a wet china race he had the pace to win, won the 3rd comfortably, 4th he got stuck behind Massa a few laps from the end, if he had passed Massa sooner, he would have caught bottas, In canada, an incident with Max ruined his race, but he still finished fourth even though he had dropped to 18th after the safety car restart for a new wing, With out that incident, he obviously had the pace to win. in azerbaijan Vettel ruined his own race going into the back of lewis under the safety car..... he other wise would have won the race as he was the fastest that day. Ferrari failed because of them selfs,not because Merc was dominate, Ferrari failed, and vettels driving was poor that season.

dont know why you bring up quali for, its quite known vettel was not great at quali.

As i said, ferrari had the car, but vettel and ferrari failed, poor decisions, bad in season development + loads of driver errors over the season ruined it ( And Max ), not a merc dominate car.

 

My wife had headphones, dancing to some music while cleaning. I thought she was turning into a gangster. I felt like I was in danger. Almost ended my marriage.

 

When she starts twerking, then you're in danger....

 

He's allowed to behave any way he wants to. And I'm allowed to express my opinion of it. I disapprove of Hamilton's disrespect of the sport as much as I disapproved of John McEnroe's tennis temper tantrums.

 

No one, including me, is saying it isn't. That's why I can express my opinion on Hamilton's behavior.

 

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!! ARE YOU FREAKIN BLIND! THAT BALL WAS OUTSIDE!

Love McEnroe's tantrums on the court.

 

I find it hard to believe you've ever gotten laid, never mind married!

 

Live and let live, is my motto.
There are many things I don't approve, yet I don't call them disgusting or disgraceful. I just ignore them.
Freedom of expression is often synonymous to provocation; I don't know if you have noticed.

 

This upstanding sport we like? I've never seen any driver disrespect this upstanding sport. There has never been a fight between drivers in this upstanding sport. I've never heard a driver use profanity on the radio. There has never been scantily clad grid girls in this upstanding sport. I've never seen any driver ram into another driver on purpose in this upstanding sport. I've never seen teams break rules or got fined in this upstanding sport. This sport F1 has been the model of purity and holiness for the young generation.

 

Qualifying is relevant as it shows the pure outright pace of the car. I certainly wouldn't call Vettel a bad qualifier. When he is given a car that suits him, he is extremely fast in qualifying. Look at his Red Bull days. Kimi was also known as a very strong qualifier and his pure speed. It just never seemed to really exist at Ferrari.

I admit my memory of some of the 2017 races is a little foggy, but Mercedes had the outright pace.

1-3 vs 2-4 quali in Australia. I recall it was a fair race that Vettel won. Kimi however was 20+ seconds behind. He didn't have the pace of LH or VB.
1-3 vs 2-4 quali in China. Ferrari did appear to have pace, they did make some mistakes, but Hamilton controlled the whole race from the lead.
1-2 vs 3-5 quali in Bahrain. Over .5 sec advantage. Vettel was fast and won. Kimi again 20+ seconds behind. LH had a 5 second penalty which stumped his chances.
Vettel probably would have won Baku because Hamilton had a headrest problem and was forced to pit. Not sure he would have won on pace. He was in 2nd when he thumped Lewis.
Canada did see Vettel pit for a new front wing and put him to the back, ruining his race. But Hamilton still lead every lap to win the race.
Singapore was a very likely win for Ferrari, a great track for them, but the infamous squeeze with Verstappen happened.

However by mid season, especially after the summer break, Mercedes had out developed Ferrari. Some races winning by half a minute. Ferrari had some good races here and there, but still lost.

As I said, Ferrari had a very good car, competitive. Start of the season I don't think I would say they had the best car, but they perhaps had an equal car overall. Once the upgrades came, Mercedes clearly became the best car, to the point it was once again a dominant car.

A lot of people gave Vettel a lot of flack for the mistakes he made, but 2017 was a very strong year for him. He was wayyyy better than Kimi (who had 7 podiums). I would hope even at that time, Kimi was still better than Bottas (considering how overrated he was), but who knows.

Take all the mistakes away from Ferrari and Vettel, and Mercedes still wins the WCC, and Hamilton still wins the WDC.

 

I have a good one for you. But its not worth the ban.

 

I have been thinking that for a long time.
Bar incident, qualifs show the best car/driver combination, IMO.
In qualifs, you are fighting the clock, not for position.
The ideal conditions, for me; talent and raw speed are all important.

 

Well played.

 

F1 is dirty and unfair. Its a sport and not a clean one. That FACT is news here it appears lol. Superb post!^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I think F1 is a sport mostly played behind closed doors.

 

As long as it's tongue in cheek, go for it! We're all just F1 fans here, engaging in some fun banter. Nobody, I hope, takes it too seriously.

 

You trying to get me banned man! Nice try

 

add vettels points for china ( 13 points ), GB ( 19), canada ( 13 ) Singapore ( 25 points ), Japan (25 points )..............


Ive barely scratched the surface of all his n ferraris mistakes................ but with just those vettel is already champion.....................

I rest my case.

P.S remind me how CL is getting on quali 1st against redbull?

 

No doubt the Ferrari was a championship winning car 2017&18. Hamilton trailed in the championship both years. And Bottas finished 3rd and 5th. A dominant car doesn't finish 3rd & 5th.

 

Ha! Now I'm really intrigued! Pretty sure the "victim" saying it's cool and we're just joking around gets you a rock solid pass.

 

Lol

 

There is nothing to suggest Vettel wins China. Hamilton controlled the race, very easily could have had plenty of pace in hand.
GB, there is no way Vettel is beating Hamilton that race. In 1 lap he was clear of the field.
Again there is nothing to suggest Vettel wins that race.
Singapore I think Vettel could have absolutely won that race. I agree +25. Hamilton may have still came 2nd, but maybe even 3rd behind Kimi. -7 or -10
Japan, again I do not think it is likely Vettel wins that race. He would be lucky to get 3rd IMO, the Red Bulls were very very strong. Kimi was 32 seconds behind. He may have only finished 5th ahead of Kimi, who knows. In fairness, +12.

Absolutely reasonable to assume 354 pts for Vettel, maybe 360 if you realllly want to be generous. Hamilton 356, maybe 353. It's sad we didn't get to see the championship unfold like this, as it would have been one for the ages. So Vettel MIGHT have won the championship, Mercedes still wins the WCC by a sizable margin. Of course we could pick apart places where Hamilton could score more points, and suddenly he has another 400 point season.

You mention Leclerc and his Quali performance vs race. It's two things, Red Bull is a better race car than Quali car, Ferrari is the opposite, and Leclerc can be magical over a single lap more often than he can over an entire GP. It's not a whole lot different than 2017. Mercedes had single lap advantage over Ferrari, and Ferrari was a very very good race car. Sometimes the better car (Australia, Monaco, Singapore, etc)

@ktu you say the 2017 and 2018 were championship winning cars. That suggests you mean the better car? Keep in mind that Raikonnen finished 4th in 2017. 100 points behind Bottas (though he did miss a race), 112 behind Vettel. In 2018 Kimi finished 3rd, 4 points ahead of Bottas who finished 5th. I think there is an argument that the 2018 Ferrari was the better car for the first half of the year. I personally would put it pretty equal with Mercedes. By Hungary/Belgium, Mercedes once again came through with a stunning upgrade that put them well ahead of Ferrari. In the final 7 wins (10 races) that Lewis won, his average margin of victory over the closest Ferrari was 18.8 seconds. Not exactly close.

With all this focus on these two years, you guys have made me realize how Hamilton wasn't all that great in 2017. Vettel was for sure the better driver. To be that close, and even perhaps would have won the championship against the better Mercedes. Bottas being overrated, a signed #2 driver in 2017 and finished with 60 points of Lewis in his first year with Mercedes. 2018 Lewis stepped up his driving, and also flexed his power with the team as Bottas was forced to play his role as #2 and help Lewis which really hurt his own season, but ensured Hamilton had the best chance of the WDC, but also maintained Mercedes' dominance in the WCC. So with the fastest car, Hamilton nearly loses the championship in 2017 to Vettel, and again with the fastest car in 2018 requires his teammate to play a bigger supporting to role to get the job done. Like you said, Hamilton was losing the championship by mid season.

 

You guys should go add up all the Ferrari 'mistakes' just since 1980.

Pironi
Alboreto
Tambay
Arnoux
Prost
Mansell
the list is long....

 

Absolutely true.
Sf70h was a great chassis but mainly handicapped by an unreliable power unit.
Again Mercedes out developed them during the year.
Vettel victory in Brazil was a lucky one.