Nothing BUT the windshield as I previously said (and as we’ve seen on the Levante-based Purosangue early prototypes)
I We will see the black prototype during July and August.. I think during Sept they will begin to lighten the camouflages
@4re4ever Due to the Purosangue order book being re-opened: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4600133-ferrari-n-v-race-q1-2023-earnings-call-transcript Q1 2023 Earnings Conference Call May 4, 2023 9:00 AM ET "And today we are also pleased to announce, the long-awaited reopening for the Purosangue with deliveries due in 2026." and, of course, the Purosangue using the V12, it would not surprise me if the F167 reveal is further delayed into 2025 because there are limits to how many V12 can be hand-made per year and Purosangue will be requiring as many of those V12s as possible. So, question is, why reveal a car you cannot produce at volume, instead only a trickle?
Just got once more to hear it may be introduced end of 23/early in 24. Spider begin of deliveries due from 25, Berlinetta approx. half a year earlier. I think they are smart enough to find some more 12 cylinder engines somewhere around Maranello.
I doubt it, I foresee F167 production will be extremely limited (less than 500 per year) until at least 2026. The most V12s ever made in one year (2017) is just over 2700 per Ferrari annual report. That level has not been repeated, it occurred once. And "smartness" has nothing to do with my thoughts, simply their historical V12 output combined with the "unexpected" volume of Purosangue orders. Of course, the F167 reveal could pull an "SF90" reveal follow-through, i.e. waiting 18+ months until production ensues...probably a combination, trickle of production until 2026 and then reaches "historically normal" production levels for a standard edition V12 model.
Well, the general strategy of Ferrari is to produce less than before of one kind of a model per year. It will take some time until a 167 leaves the factory but I am sure both PS and 167 will be produced in parallel very soon. The 12 cylinder belt is located on the first floor. Above the 6/8 cylinder production line. Well separated. Well prepared. They build 812 and PS there already. Nit a big change so anyhow. My thoughts.
12’s are built on the upper floor and engine assembly area is quite small. Unless they build a much larger facility the 12 cylinder production for the F167 will be very limited because of the purosangue.
At the moment Ferrari are making V12s for Old Models (completing remaining orders): -812 -812 Comp -812 Comp A -SP3 Daytona New Model: -Purosangue (Current Production) (EV from 25/26 so V12 may also continue till 27/28) Coming soon Models: -F167 (will replace 812, Comp and Comp A) (Production start approx 12 months away)(Depending on actual launch date of course) -New icona (will replace SP3) but 2 - 3 years before production starts)(V8 Icona may come before the next V12 Icona so could be even longer) So currently 12Vs for 5 models but within 12 - 24 months only 1 - 3 models
Thank you, Of note, the SP3 production is about 10 cars a month, build out will take many years. The 812C/CA build out is slow, but not as slow as the SP3, still, build out will be years. The 812GTS is nearing the end, I speculate production is very slow and will terminate soon. Any new V12 Icona will also have a multi-year build out for a small total number of cars. The F167 is to be a non-limited, standard production model, that means "lifetime" production should be near 5000 units, you have to have 1000+ per year to have a 5-year run, and the Purosangue using 2000+ per year will definitely restrict how many F167 will be built per year. Let us see if Ferrari can find a way to make more than 2712 V12s per year (that was their peak V12 production, in 2017). Ferrari will continue making V12s until at least the late 2030s, per recent CEO announcement https://www.autocarindia.com/car-news/ferrari-combustion-engines-could-live-on-beyond-2035-on-e-fuels-428141
I do not think Ferrari knows what their V12 'cap' is, but here is some recent history based on their annual reports: 2017: 2,712 V12 engines produced 2018: 2,240 V12 engines produced 2019: 2,442 V12 engines produced 2020: 2,208 V12 engines produced 2021: 1,824 V12 engines produced 5-year Average: 2,285 / year (I need to review 2022 since it is now available)
Nice work. However, I’d guess that the pandemic years are unrepresentative. Do you have the volumes prior to 2017 for more data points?
I can only guess on the below as tbh I have never really paid any attention to the engine production side of things at Ferrari. I have seen them being made. But never really looked or put any thought into requirements, layouts or logistics for engine production. I get court up in watching them being made. so please forgive me in advance. Thank you. So most likely they could do 3K per year without to much trouble. which could work well to start with . Then if that could update or expand to add an additional 500 - 1k on top of the 3K that would cover them. V8 production will be down without the 488/F8 line continuing so they maybe able to reduce the size of the V8 production area and repurpose for additional V12s. I have totally no idea about the setup or location of the V6 productio. However it looks like it will grow pretty quickly over the next few years.
A few years ago in late 2019 when I did the factory tour, one of the many things which stood out to me was the difference in the number of build stations for the V12 car production line vs the V8 one. I don't remember the specific numbers of them both but the V12 was an order of magnitude larger, maybe something like 30 odd stations vs 50 odd stations. Given this, engine production may not be the only bottleneck they need to contend with in f167 production.
812SF/GTS and 812Cs are being built by the end of 2023. PS production being ramped up in parallel. 812 will be replaced by 167 from 2024 on. This being a 1:1 change the entire volume (167+PS) remains unchanged. As I said, Ferrari is going to produce less units of a series per year since the model much variety grows more significantly than the capacity of the plant. The niche species can be neglected.
The GTS production better not end before mine is completed… At this point, I am quite certain that my GTS will be the VERY last one off the line.
What’s the definition of hand built? Every engine is assembled „by hand“ using dedicated prefabricated parts. Some years ago an entire engine was put together by one person at Porsche in Zuffenhausen. The one was even registered on the engines data sheet and could be identified lateron. Which could become delicate for those causing failures repeatedly. The assembly took place at a fixed stand to which the parts were supplied to on time. Porsche changed this cause they didn’t want to be an engine marked by one single person and went back to the typical conveyor belt assembly where the parts remain at a fixed position with the engines passing by. As a consequence, a team of mechanics screw them together. Either way can be named hand built though.
There was definitely a lot of support machinery but both lines had individual people connecting and building. Just that the V12 line had a lot more stops and took a lot longer from what they told us on the tour.
When I visited the engine manufacturing area the V12’s were being dynoed for a significant amount of time in comparison to the V8’s which could also limit the V12 production. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Almost nothing in a Porsche is hand built today compared to Ferrari. They embrace automation. They have to in order to produce over 300,000 cars a year.
Ferrari building a new model without hybrid over the next 5 years - Puro starts V12 but ends ... Odd people who have "seen" the replacement post here - why risk being cut to share on public forum Fun to speculate on next, but the ones who "know" posting as the car arrives - it ain't so. Ferrari is the worlds best at branding - c'mon they don't share anything by mistake! 812GTS is as fast as Pista at Fiorano - why would anyone sell a beautiful GT and wait years for the next to arrive - silly. Hope Ferrari continues to tighten - if you don't own an 812 no replacement for you.
