360 engine in 348? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

360 engine in 348?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Bird511, May 20, 2023.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    348 and 360 use almost the same block and share alot of similarities, 458 engine is entirely different situation... that is truly a dreamers swap or would cost a fortune
     
  2. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    #52 PAUL500, May 24, 2023
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
    Have a read up on the v8 engines fitted to the Dino's by Mototechnique as they did a similar mix and match build, claimed by the owner of the black example to be based on an F40 block but in reality it was from a Mondial, as you note the v8 blocks upto the 360 are pretty much the same.

    That engine was actually built by Tim the owner of Walkersport in the UK.
     
  3. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,814
    Lake Villa IL
    I would think if for some reason you want to use 360 heads (retaining VVT?) it would still be easier to start with an F355 short block.

    Ti rods are beneficial at that rpm.

    Still, just seems much easier to use a complete F355 engine rather than almost make the exact same thing from a bunch of different parts, IMO.
     
  4. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    . I'm trying to not spend $50k on the swap is what it comes down to, I have considered using a 355 short block as it would make life easier and I may in fact however. 360 heads have less issues and have variable valve timing, ontop of that they're about half the cost of 355 heads. 355 engines are very expensive these days, 2-3x that of a 360 engine. If 355 motors had variable valve timing I would just use a 355 engine
     
  5. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
  6. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I mean, removing, major, replacing/rebuild heads is 20k for a reputable Indy shop to do it and thats all bolt together with correct parts. I fear your in for a rude awakening here.
    [emoji848]

    Sent from my SM-G990U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  7. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,814
    Lake Villa IL
    Gotcha, I haven't compared parts prices.

    Not sure how much VVT will be a benefit without also having the 360 dual length intake runner setup. With ITB's you may not widen the power curve much with only exhaust cam variators.

    Put updated guides in 355 heads and you would likely have more reliability by taking variators out of the equation.
     
  8. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    I worked on ferraris for years as a tech years ago, I have a lift/shop at my house and will be doing most of the work myself and my neighbor/ long time good friend since before we were neighbors is a very capable machinist, he's built parts for Sheepy racing, 316 speed, etc and said he'll do all the machine work for free. That said I don't think I'll spend $50k, but if I do I do. If a 348 block/crank/rods with 355 pistons works then so be it if it doesn't I'll probably put the 348 head I purchased as a replacement on my car put it back together with the 348 motor and build this dumb Frankenstein motor on the side.
     
  9. e21jason

    e21jason Karting

    Jul 27, 2015
    70
    Dubai
    Full Name:
    Jason
    I looked at this when I rebuilt my 348 engine, the blocks are more of an evolution of each other, they share the same main dimensions bore spacing, bearing size etc but different bell housing patterns, oil drans. The 355 and 360 have additional oil drains from the head, so not a straight bolt onto a 348 block. A Stroker build using a 355 crank and rods was the most feasible. 355 pistons have different crowns and valve cut outs, but as custom pistons are affordable theses days and CP and JE already have 348 in their catalogue so this would optimize the set up.

    And for going the 360 swap most after Marlet ECU's can do VVT so not a major hurdle.
     
  10. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    If you were a Ferrari tech for years should this conversation not be the other way around, and you advising us amateurs what the obstacles are and how you plan to overcome them, the latest seems to now be block machining for oil returns. The list gets longer and longer before a start is even made.

    I genuinely look forward to a build thread as I love this sort of challenge and learning from others first hand experience. It is why many of us have tried to help so far. Having a machinist on board is one major advantage you possess already.
     
  11. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
  12. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    So for anyone that was following along I decided to just buy a full 355 drivetrain with 6 speed, I decided to purchase a 5.2 setup due to single ecu and also wanting to eventually go standalone it will make my life easier later. I may eventually do 360 heads to add variable valve timing but for now I'm going to attempt to keep it as "simple" as possible. I'll make a separate post soon to document the build.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    RC2211, Ob917, Buckets and 8 others like this.
  13. Finpat

    Finpat Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2021
    251
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Kari Lehtinen
    Sir, I salute you!
    And certainly will follow your build thread.
     
  14. User-C3

    User-C3 Karting

    Aug 29, 2018
    240
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Trevor
    looking forward to the build progress
     
  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Awesome, pretty sure the hard party is the GB linkage. It's been done you can find some details out here if I recall, some pics as well.
     
  16. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    Ya that's one of my struggles the other problem is I have an entire 355 rear craddle and ideally I'm trying to use the 355 rear suspension and whole rear craddle, it bolts up to the frame, however the mounts above the shocks and the mounts in the rear are different so that's my other big hurdle
     
  17. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,918
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    That was the right move (imo), the 360 swap would have been a headache. I don't think the variable valve timing will be worth the effort, I would upgrade cams if you want some more power out of it. The variable valve timing was to allow some more top end while still passing emissions and gave the benefit of more low end torque, but in the lighter 348 and for a car that won't be smog tested, you'll have more fun for less money but camming it up a bit (imo). Toda has cams as does a company in Belgium that work with the stock valve train.
     
    carnutdallas likes this.
  18. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    For anyone interested in following along I'm going to try to document this as well as I can in case anyone in the future is interested in doing a 355 swap into a 348... I'm not a "youtuber" so excuse my lack of quality haha but I'm just trying to document what it takes
     
    PAUL500, bobzdar and MacNugget like this.
  19. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    Rear craddle is in, have had in and out a couple times sorting out alot of stuff, basically the only things left are build a wiring harness (I've decided to run haltech rather than utilizing stock ecu/harness) and I'm having an exhaust built by a friend that's a fabricator rather than buying an off the shelf one
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    INTMD8, crinoid and albert328gts like this.
  20. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
    2,125
    Full Name:
    Josh @jtcarprojects
  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    Might cost less....
     
  22. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    The bigger deal is the fact that I'm unsure if a 355 exhaust will clear the frame structure of the 348 as well as I'm unsure if the brackets on top that mount to the frame will line up to a 348, I'm also unsure if the exhaust tip will line up perfectly with the 355 bumper outlets so it's just a guarantee that everything fits, he does good work though
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    INTMD8 and MacNugget like this.
  23. tommygunct

    tommygunct Karting

    Dec 26, 2012
    175
    Stuart florida
    hi pal could you please call me i have a 348 i want to do i really would apreciate it tommy gun 2036408962
     
  24. Bird511

    Bird511 Karting

    Aug 10, 2022
    72
    Brooksville Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael Bird
    Ob917, zstyle, cstorry and 6 others like this.
  25. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2022
    2,267
    Saint Michaels, MD
    Full Name:
    Lucas

Share This Page