No, and I'm not saying you're wrong about that, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that's correct. Not doubting you there. I'm saying you're wrong about this particular car. You don't know this car, I do. I've known its past owners. I know its history. It's very well documented. So, believe what you want about this particular car, but you're wrong in stating it's been repainted. Oh, and I've been doing this for 36 years? That doesn't make a difference.
There's a key piece of documentation in that auction, look at picture 452 and read the document from Ferrari North America. The second paragraph reads as follows: “Said automobile was originally purchased by MCM as the distributor and sent to Francisco Mir with the intent of conducting turbo charge testing. Consequently said chassis was not registered to an individual owner until April, 1979. To that time no warranty book had ever been issued.” So the car sat around from April 1975 to April 1979, that's four years that no one knows what happened with the car. Given that, we have no idea if the car was even completely finished when sent to Francisco Mir. Or, maybe the car underwent a full repaint in his care. It's four years of unknown history as the documents begin with when the car was sold new. So, you could be right, this car could have been repainted, but there's no documentation of that. There's no documentation of anything that happened during those four years. It's a three owner car, and none of those three owners have ever repainted the car. And all documentation since it was sold new (in 1979) is in tact. That car is as it was when purchased new.
I've also been called "the oracle" but I make no claims to know everything. I am, however, very good at digging and researching. In fact, here's something I just dug up… As you probably know, when I bought my car it was red (the original factory color was Verde Pino and it was painted red in 1989). Supplied with my car were physical photographic prints of the car long before it underwent its repaint to red. I'll also note that I have all the documentation for my car since it was sold new in 1976 (and also knew the original owner). I don't have many actual photos, only about 12, but there's one photo of the engine where you can see the drip rails. Remember, this is a photo of the car when it was new (or maybe just a few years old), before it was ever repainted red: Image Unavailable, Please Login I know that's not the best photo in the world, but that's definitely not a black drip rail. Oddly, though, looking at a photo of my car when I bought it, there are black drip rails. So the body shop that repainted it in 1989 added the black drip rails: Image Unavailable, Please Login This isn't about "who knows more" or whatever, it's about knowing how to research, look at documentation and details, and being open to every possibility. Understanding that these were hand-built cars and can vary—I guarantee you no two cars left the factory the same. My car clearly didn't have black drip rails when it left the factory. Did others? Sure! Did the majority? Likely so! But it's possible some didn't. I'm not trying to fight with you, belittle you, embarrass you, or anything of that nature. I'm just trying to show you that pretty much nothing on these cars is "black and white" (no pun intended). There's a whole lot of gray area.
No dog in this fight, but the description states the car was repainted. My 75 has never been repainted and has rails painted black. "1975 Ferrari Dino 308 GT4 Sold for $147,000 on 5/25/23 The Bertone-designed bodywork is finished in Rosso Ferrari (20-R-187) with Boxer-style matte black lower panels and was repainted and blended during previous ownership."
Ah, yes. That could have been worded much better. Understand that is BAT's interpretation/writing, not the owners. The seller states this in the comments: The GT4 remains in its factory color, Rosso Ferrari. As stated in the description, there has been paintwork/blending/touch-up over the years/decades. And as I have stated, paintwork has been done: touch-up, blending, etc. This paintwork also would have been performed on external, visible panels for concours and other shows. However, a TOTAL repaint has never been performed on this car during its registered ownership of the three previous owners. I certainly believe that most cars have black drip rails from the factory, but mine did not (as seen in the photo post #3455 which is an original period photo). This one at auction did not either… unless it was painted between 1975 and 1979 before it sold new (post #3454) - which I won't deny was possible, there's just no way to prove that so we can only go by existing documentation.
Blue is good, if that is what you want . But from your previous post, it seemed like you were concerned about factory original paint details.
RHD Euro model on the market… https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1976-ferrari-dino-recc31541-2-warwick-0623
I think they all left the factory with black 1/2 height drip rails . Any deviation is simply a repaint ( lack of attention to OEM style ) …..this is despite what any previous owner (s) or agents representing claim . Any one thinking differently are kidding themselves.
I can certainly agree with this statement, the evidence certainly suggests that is the case. But, it doesn't mean they didn't miss a few here and there. Forget the one that just sold and sparked this debate, look at post #3455. That's a period photo of my car long before I owned it and long before it was ever repainted. Those drip rails are body-colored, not black. I wish I had more and better pics of that, but it's the only one in the small stack that shows drip rails at all. In the grand scheme of things this doesn't really matter. However, if a concours judge were to take points off my car for that (which they have not — but if they did) I would present this photo as evidence my car did not leave the factory with black drip rails (and I do bring the original photos to such events). I've already proven concours judges wrong on two other things (exhaust sample tubes and rocker panel paint), so this will be another item to add to the list when going over my car during judging.
My experience has been that the the matte black was painted on the back side of the bonnet, engine lid, trunk lid and all the rails. Could it be possible that the judges might not have been familiar with that detail? Did you loose any points for your markers light modifications?
Oh yes, they give me one point for each light, so four in total (which means my car can never reach "Platinum"). In the grand scheme of things, I don't actually care. I'm one of those folks who believes everyone should do what they want to do with their car. It just so happens that most of my taste is factory original. But there are some things I don't like! But I do enjoy showing the car, and so many people seem to enjoy seeing it—I've met some wonderful folks because of it! If concours was as important to me as it is some people, I could always put the lights back in (I did keep them). And, I've contemplated doing it if I can ever think of a way to make them actually look good. I have an idea, but no idea how to execute it! And, agreed—I do believe the drip rails were painted black. The rest of those areas (backsides of the lids) were all painted black, but it seems they missed the drip rails at the factory. That one period photo of my car long before anyone ever thought about repainting it shows the engine compartment drip rails are body color. It's an anomaly, but I do have the actual photo.
I still have a lot of work to do to bring it up to a true concours quality, but it's all mostly minor stuff. I think concours are a lot of fun, and the judging experience is part of that fun. I just won't ever let myself get consumed by it. If I can get my car to a true 96 point car, meaning the only thing keeping it from 100 points is the side markers, then I might consider putting those back in. But I'd have to find a better solution—at least metal frames so they won't "bow-tie" on me.
It's funny how we go for months with seemingly no 308 GT4s on the market, then a handful all hit at once. We just had the one that sold on BAT, there's one on Classic Car Auctions (post #3462), and now this one on Collecting Cars: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1974-ferrari-dino-308-gt4-1 Although the auction states it's a 1974 model, but it's clearly a Series II car and its chassis number of 12408 places it at a manufacturing year of 1976.
It’s missing a few bits , light surrounds , co piglia binding on the air intakes in the engine compartment.The air filter box + connector pipage .It’s got none OEM after market wheels , sunroof and the window chromes been also molested .Some one’s red painted the Ferrari on the cam cover for what ever reason .The rear badging ( with redundant holes ) is all over the shop ….semi excusable on a early NA car but this one’s over the top re identity crisis ,Wonder what else underneath has been taken off ? The fan in the front LHS behind the headlight looks after market . The sound proofing under the rear deck looks naff as well , albeit easily removed . Back in the day when they were in the dull drums many were molested as they dropped down the $ food chain .Now values are rising and attitudes changing molested cars wildly deviating from OEM stand out like sore thumbs .
Yep, noticed all that too—there's a whole lot about this car that needs to be corrected. Just noticed that one of the wheels is also missing a lug nut! The car lacks a lot and is seemingly misrepresented.
Hi yes that’s my car. I unfortunately haven’t been on here and missed this post. It’s a strong, well done car and I am bummed to have to sell it but I recently bought an old house with a lot of needs and can’t afford to have two of these anymore! My other is a basically bone stock 75 308 but it had some needs when I bought it and now I’m so deep into it, I could never sell without being totally underwater. Anyway the car didn’t sell on BAT so it’s available. Happy to talk by phone if anyone wants to PM me. Thanks Erol
Ha thank you. Sadly bid increments reverted to $250 at the 2 min mark which was enough for me to shut my laptop and go to the bar. The previous red car that sold for a fortune had no compression or leak down, but it was pretty and had a set of luggage
