Ferrari F430 Manual Conversion - Now does this affect value?

Probably, and when parts are no longer available we will all have to have a manual conversion, so they will be worth sod all!

 

In the watch world, "Aftermarket" means not factory installed. This is where a jeweler drills holes in the watch and mounts diamonds. This is not something horologists endorse as it destroys the integrity of the structure of the watch case and band. This type of modification reduces the value of collectible watches (i.e. Rolex, AP, JLC, Patek, ...) contrary to what the rap and hip-hop community states.

I wouldn't walk into a watch collectors show wearing your Hublot. The movements they use are crap for the price, and their finish and quality are about the same as a watch that costs 10%. Take a look at a Hublot under a loop compared to a JLC or AP in a similar price range, you will see what I mean. If you really want to compare, then compare a Grand Seiko at 1/2 the price of the Hublot. The one thing that could be said for Hublot, is that they do spend a lot of money on Marketing and endorsements instead of on the actual watches so non-watch people know the name and know they aren't cheap.

 

Software too!

Don't forget the software, its just is an important element of any gated conversion as the hardware! If the software is not properly converted, installed or configured, it can cause problems not even noticed at the point of conversion but many months or years down the line. People need to appreciate that not all conversions are made ‘equal’, especially true on the software front just as much. Certainly one area which can make the car a basket case into the future if done badly, especially if it breaks stuff like fault codes for example or detonation sensing for example. I once for example had to fix a Challenge Stradale gated conversion which was done by a famous tuner and they'd literally deleted the entire fault code table so it couldn't generate a CEL even when things where drastically wrong with the car. It was a total basket case until I fixed it properly.

Long Version of above

While its true someone who did it in their garage (just one time) may not have the experience or used the correct fitment method, or possibly rounded some nuts, torqued bolts down incorrectly, caused rattles in trim that wasn’t there before, you get the idea - they may actually be an ace mechanic themselves or extremely meticulous so it is really going to depend on their skill level and how much effort and time they took to do everything conscientiously and skillfully.

Conversely even a very well respected independent specialist garage (even Ferrari main dealer for that matter which doesn't necessarily equate to the same thing) could be equally convert one just as bad if they rushed it out of the door and let inexperienced staff work on it. Why? Well some may decided if they were short staffed that week to just rush it out - hopefully not the specialist you use! You just don’t know so again its never black and white however as a general norm it does make sense. Choose carefully whom you trust with your beloved Ferrari!

The conversions most true to original factory gated cars are technically conversions done which using donor parts or original factory new parts (when they were available) from the original part catalogue. I.e. Ferrari original parts however if they were fitted badly it doesn’t necessarily mean it is any better than aftermarket parts, particularly if aftermarket parts specifications where as good as or exceeded Ferrari specs - but how do you even know if they are at this stage? In terms of mechanical kits it gets a bit trickier to define 'good' because now there are many different vendors in the space all with various different parts and different approaches to 'quality' or how similar (or not) they are to the original parts. At least kits that have been out a long time and cars that have been driven sufficiently are a much safer bet at this point. Hopefully time will make this variable get more solid.

Some vendors have went with an aggressive sales strategy on ‘perceived’ quality on the 'parts' front by making them align to almost the exact original form but then may have done something irksome like shortcuts on the software (to save some $) – some don’t even have a solution at all for software. Others suppliers have done the complete opposite and made the parts 'robust' but not necessarily put as much thought into the aesthetics of the parts (which you won’t actually see unless fitting the kit yourself so whether this matters is open to debate – I guess just knowing for some people may be enough…) or whether they look the same or identical to the original ones they replaced. Ironically these suppliers may have actually invested in software so it works better and properly in the longer term and without any glitches or artifacts left over from doing the software without specialist Ferrari expertise. So it comes back to the old adage of “don’t just a book by its cover”.

Some conversions (F430 specifically) are even omitting the E-Diff which is absolutely horrific and not recommended in the slightest (just ask Ferrari or anyone who understands what they are talking about and doesn't have a vested interest in selling something). You don't have to delete the e-diff to gated convert an F430 but some of the less well developed kits are using this as a 'drastic' option because again lack of investment on software and development of the said kits.

What does all this mean?

I think it’s a bit of a minefield out there and until a specific inspection becomes available which verifies quality of a conversion it will be difficult to know if the car you interested in is good or a basket case. I think the easiest ones to outright reject are E-Diff deleted F430’s – steer clear of them. I’d urge people to buy conversions that have been driven a significant amount of mileage post conversion and are proven free from gremlins or get them converted by people who have done lots of them and have a lot of experience (and do the software properly). This probably means that conversions which are done by the same shop many times have the potential to be better quality (obviously not necessarily but more likely particularly if they are focused on quality which assumes they get better with every one done until its perfect).

In summary because it is so difficult and technically hard to determine if the conversion is good or not I believe factory cars will still demand a slight premium over conversions, especially in the mid-term, until significant miles have been done on the said conversion cars (10k miles post conversion should suffice) and then it will begin to not even matter (from a technical perspective) if no adverse effects are felt vs another example, except for historical record reasons of it just being 'because OEM', ymmv…

 

I agree with you again. The example you gave earlier about swapping bezels is very different from above though.

 

My original "Diamonds" rant was more of a commentary on how people think modifying/upgrading a collectible makes it worth more. It usually doesn't.

 

360trev… you are clearly the software wizard. Do you offer flashing for those going the DIY route?

Also, agreed 100%, the e-diff deletes, without a mechanical LSD in place are pretty short sighted.

 

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I meant to type…..greatest response ever.


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I didnt know personally its that extreme, but i must admit im not watch collector, i dont ever wear watches as i can see the time perfectly well on my phone, or laptop... i prefer spending the money on cars than watches personally, but i do enjoy looking at them and window shopping for them every now and then an notice that everytime my attention gets drawn to the Hublots and Richard Mille's....

 

avoid the Hublot, but drool over the Richard Mille I keep being tempted by RM, but I never wore my Patek Nautilus so I sold it, figure a RM will be the same. Too many watches not enough "time" pun intended...

 

From experience of owning a fully sorted F1 F430 that I owned for three years and a new-to-me EAG converted 360; I can definitively say that the manual experience albeit non-OEM is light years better than a factory F1. Neither car is fast relative to today's cars, but that doesn't matter when you are rowing through the gears manually!

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Is that Fish's old car? Stunning

 

Edited that for you.

I guess it also depends on where you live and how densely populated it is as well. Very few places in the UK these days where you can enjoy a manual car without it simply being a pan in the clutch, and the F1 IMO is lights years ahead, when in stop start traffic and slow moving congestion!

It will only get worse and this is coming from a manual man, that would have nothing else up until a few years ago. To much much hassle these days!

 

Call me crazy - and maybe it’s specific to a CS - but the standard manual is so much smoother in traffic than the F1 in the CS regardless of being in race mode or not. Beyond jerky and at times almost seemed confused.

 

Having had a genuine article and now a converted car. I can tell you the feeling is the same but you sit higher in the seat in the converted car for some reason...

Oh right... because my wallet is bulkier....

 

I think the price discount is interesting. It represents the changing face of the 430 buyer. It feels like the 430 is transitioning into a driver oriented frequent use car rather than a more selective use item. As such the relative demand will shift as well. Also I wonder of would be buyers are worried about longevity of reproduced parts... but having driven both variants there is no comparison. Driving a 430 f1 vs a 458 back to back is instructive. In the f1 car if feels like evolution. In the manual car it is apples and oranges.

 

Thanks, and yes, It is.

 

This. My EAG conversion is working beautifully third season in and over 10k miles driven. Not a single issue.

 

How much does an EAG conversion cost all in?

 

Depending on the shop that does it and if your clutch needs replacing, $30-40k

 

Plus shipping if you can't find a local

 

I am considering a Cambio Manuale (MrS) conversion here in NJ. About 20k. My F430 Spider has 13k miles. I have had my car since 2017 and don't plan on selling anytime soon. I have heard GTE in NJ has done tons of them with no issues.

 

Not MrS, it’s DrS.

 

Lol sorry that's what I meant.

 

He didn't take four years of S medical school to be called Mr.