Not true. All things engineering related entail compromises. Fighter jets sacrifice manoeuvrability for speed, or vice versa, for example.
Sometimes things change and its hard for us to keep up! In terms of propulsion systems the battery is the equivalent to ICE! If you care about weight, it’s the battery, if you care about throttle response or application of power it’s the battery and if you care about the duration of speed you intend to travel it’s the battery. Putting an non-bespoke battery in a Ferrari is the same as putting a Aston Martin V12 in a Ferrari… Developing the EV propulsion system in-house is critical to maintaining the link to Enzo’s Ferrari! Just as important, it also supports the continued employment of 100’s of employees! “The success of GI & GS are both critically linked to winning the hearts and minds of today’s 12 years old” When your version of Ferrari no longer aligns with the above it’s time to go and let the next generation take over. Ferrari isn’t a single person its the people that work there and a semi-generic romantic alignment to the principles of Enzo! In 2045 if a vehicle comes out of the gates built by Ferrari employees, with a propulsion system designed & developed in Maranello its a Ferrari. The badge represents that - essentially everything after that is marketing! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
With all due respect to the words I write, it is your message that is the perfect summary of Ferrari marketing today... This forum is not the place to tell stories, the soul of a Ferrari is its engines and all the mechanical parts that make it up. A battery is not a motor and will never have any nobility!!! an applewatch is not a Patek, Rolex, IWC... no need to try to re-write history. It may work with a young generation without car culture, but certainly not here...if the communication strategy of the factory is similar to your writings, then it is to despair...try to re-write history for us Force-accepting EVs might work on 8-year-olds, but certainly not here. Leave our generation alone, gradually move away from the brand and go out to conquer the wealthy kids...
All the expensive EVs with high output will have advanced battery cell from top 3 cell makers mainly. Ferrari only has to do the structual design with pack of certain energy and weight target. Then why pack factory inhouse? To my mind, no one will produce the pack for the expensive EVs without the examption fromthe product quality issues. If something goes wrong about battery pack, packer should pay full or partial penalty of vehicle service price, a huge amount for what he has produced for vehicle being affected by battery issue. So it is better for Ferrari to assemble their own pack since no one with right mind would do that. So making Ferrari’s own battery may not be correct, rather they assemble it at the factory. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
a battery is fuel source, as comparable to a fuel tank, both serve no purpose until connected to an device that utilizes that "fuel" thus, if there is to be a comparison, the electric motors are the device that utilizes the battery fuel, and thus comparable to the ICE a battery is a special fuel source as it carries the entire fuel used, whereas gasoline powered devices only carry about half the fuel, the other half (not by weight though) being air used for combustion, imagine the additional weight if ICE had to carry around its own air supply and gasoline...quite a bit heavier it would be...immensely so just the same, you do realize that Ferrari has their own aluminum foundry, correct (i.e. used for making engine blocks)? they will not have the equivalent for the batteries made, they will source most of its components from vendors and probably only assemble in their 'factory', so, not really what you are portraying, and, even if I am completely wrong, the battery is still just the fuel tank, not much heritage there to be all excited about (even on the ICE side) and, then there are the electric motors, Ferrari will have nothing there to add, even if they 'design' and 'build' them inhouse, so what, just an electric motor that no one will ever want to see, will not be on display through a glass/lexan-motor cover as Ferrari has already indicated, they are a luxury brand, moving quickly away from their heritage, destined to collapse without ICE, how do I know? easy, just look at the current high-end EVs, made in extraordinarily small batches, no one wants them, definitely not enough to maintain a company the size of Ferrari... (Rimac Nevera {150 total planned}, Lotus Evija(still not in production..only 130 planned), Pininfarina Battista {150 total planned}) Pagini gets it, he said no to EVs because his customers do not want them...
Great discussion, Ive very much enjoyed reading. Thank you. I find myself agreeing with most of you- because you are making good points. As I see it, its a journey, this is where Ferrari is now. Good or bad, at least none of us is really indifferent- it shows we care. I also love the 458/F12 era of cars, but the world changes and its bigger than us. Carry on. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
The "world changes", sure enough, but this particular top-down governmentally forced, non-market driven, EV "revolution" is nonsense, predicated on nonsense and is immediately a non-starter for at least 40% of the overall first-world driving population (and 100% of the developing world) as they have no ability to 'charge' at home, coupled with the forced 'reliable electricity generation removal' spells a quite distorted future, again, not market-driven in the least, so, not a 'normal' change, but one that has other intentions than those being portrayed... the EV "revolution" is already collapsing and will continue to do so and will either be a distant memory in 10 years or, pick your favorite dystopian future movie portrayal ... and, of course, the current Italian PM wants nothing to do with this "EV" future... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/italy-electric-vehicles-ev-revolt-europe-eu-emissions-green-transition/
This bottom line can be summed up as “the intangibles”. New cars like the sf90 are supercomputers strapped to a rocket ship. How do they make you feel? Older cars like the 458 and f12 feel raw and raucous. How do they make you feel? Going back 2 or 3 generations to carbureted Ferraris, again how do they feel? A Ferrari is a very difficult thing to describe. I for one have a wicked grin on my face driving the 458s and 812gts. Ask me why and it’s hard to pinpoint. Different emotions but still very satisfying ones happen when driving cars even further back. Having driven a sf90, 296gtb and a Tesla, the emotions are very easy to describe. Fun, fast as hell, period. All the intangibles that put that big smirk on my face are nonexistent. These cars are immensely capable but an ICE Ferrari is something special and intangible. I really believe the golden era has passed and new tech and electricity will diminish a brand to vanilla ice cream.
Spot on but I do believe Ferrari are totally aware of this. They might do nothing but are still aware of the impending doom to their business IMO
I agree- but remember when they ruined sports cars in the 1970s? Those cars are now considered classics. I agree with your point but I also think it's worth considering what happens over time.
I also think the best era was the 458/F12 era. But, what can we do- we can't go back in time. We can still enjoy these cars, a kind of time machine When I drove my friends then brand new 458 I said they made it too soft, too lexus smooth, too tech..... fast as hell, but no where near as fun and visceral as my Scud.... looking back to this about 12 years later, I can say I was wrong, I initially missed what made the 458 so good because I was expecting a Scud Plus. Not something entirely new. I think Ferrari is now finding its way, and I think the 296 is a very good starting point. The SF90 is really something else entirely, and I think theres some room for improvement there. Anyway thats just one mans point of view.
296 rules!!!! SF90 front meh Now lets hope next 296 to be small block v8 NA. The motor tech will advance to boost NA without any FI. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Good point but probably not the best section for a discussion on the non-marketing benefits of bringing battery pack assembly in-house. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Probably because there are no real benefits, you have to dig pretty deep to even realize the LaF battery was assembled in-house, so much for marketing bona-fides... The LaF battery pack was made in-house, besides being somewhat unreliable including the inverter, it is incredibly expensive to replace, so much so Ferrari started selling 2-year warranties for $28K to cover...but after 10 years from production, you are on your own, again...thankfully you do not have to re-buy the engine every few years because it simply fails... https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/articles/laferrari-power-ferrari-expands-its-range-of-after-sales-services https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrari-warranty-options-and-pricing-as-of-8-18-2022.663929/ La Ferrari $28,060 la Ferrari Power 2 years coverage, including the Hy-Kers, the next 2 years annual services, round trip enclosed transport to the closest Ferrari Dealership, roadside assistance, and may be purchased up to the 8th year! Currently no coverage available past the 10th year, but that can change. Best part, the La Ferrari does not have to be under warranty currently to qualify, but it does have to be up to date on services and an inspection is required to initiate that is an additional cost. https://www.motortrend.com/news/ferrari-laferrari-first-look-1/ .. the battery pack is assembled alongside that of the KERS battery for the F138 Formula 1 racer Image Unavailable, Please Login @2m37s http://egarage.com/current-interests/laferrari/ ....Battery size was an essential factor in optimising the HY-KERS’ weight-power ratio with the aim being to maximise performance while reducing fuel consumption. The solution was an extremely complex system consisting of 120 cells assembled into eight 15-cell modules, with a power output that’s the equivalent of 40 traditional batteries but weighing just 60 kg. The high-voltage batteries are actually assembled in-house by the Scuderia racing department. and, this may be of interest: https://www.magnetimarelli.com/press_room/news/magneti-marelli-supplies-electric-engines-laferrari-maranello’s-first-hybrid-car Magneti Marelli provides two electric motors (one primary unit, plus another for auxiliary systems)
Didn’t even realize that Ferrari has a foundry. No seriously - I understand your point and analogy. I think the specialist in Hamburg would even agree that the battery is a bit more than a fuel source. Agree 100% no heritage appeal but heritage will be created by someone in this new era. Not sure what today’s 12 years olds will be excited about in 30 years. Can’t wait to see the 812 replacement. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Manzoni does it again showing groundbreaking new design with a hint of SR-71 inspiration. Bravo. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I’m likely a generation ahead of you so I’m not sure what I said that triggered you so much that your entire generation needs a safe place. The brand pivoted many years ago to conquer wealth kids long before the current Chairman & RACE. Heck- I’ll concede to you, as I have no knowledge or experience with the soul of Ferrari (it’s IC engines)…. Regardless, I trust your assessment of the 812 replacement will likely be accurate. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Perhaps an analogy might help. Have you ever had a dog or another pet? Did you build a bond with that pet that transcended words? Perhaps you loved that pet and cared for your pet. Now imagine that you were forced to replace your pet with a robot pet.
I happen to like vanilla ice cream(real vanilla bean-not the imitation [emoji39]) That being said I agree a Ferrari ICE is something special, developed over decades, honed to a fine edge by dozens of artisans. As for EVs, a relatively cheap Plaid wills crush any ICE car and give multimillion dollar EVs a run for the money in the quarter mile. Special? No, it’s just having big enough wires to feed a prodigious amount of electricity to large electric motors in a short amount of time. It simple engineering and simple parts, uninspired despite all the technological hurdles of battery development. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I appreciate the effort with the pet analogy, but, a pet is a living being. As much as we love Ferrari, they are not truly alive. I think you are talking about what captures the imagination of a group of people. For most of us, its been the engine, and then the rest of the Ferrari myth comes in. I think Enzo Ferrari said it himself: “I sell you an engine and throw in the car for free”. I dont think he wanted to put that engine in the middle, but eventually did it. I wonder what he would have said if you could have asked him in the 1960s what he’d think about a turbo V8 he’d be making about 20 years later. We all find the interaction with the engine truly enthralling. So the thought of no engine, or replacing part of the engine in the system, to be threatening. In the 1970s they really hurt sports cars with all sorts of things- at first fuel injection was terrible, and the cats robbed power and sound. Fast forward a few decades and sports cars were better than ever. I think its going to be similar this time- I doubt anyone in 1976 could imagine a car like a 355, never mind a 458. The benefit of our position right now is we can look back, but the problem is we are looking forward and we are not loving it because its hard to imagine how it will capture our hearts as well as what we have now…. So thats Ferrari’s challenge. I think so far they are doing a good job with it… I think they have to sell the dream of Ferrari and that is racing, and many of the racing cars now have hybrid and thus, they need to say they are selling you the same or very similar technology as racing… before you cry- but its a little different- the street cars have always been different from the racing cars, since the 1960s. Can you imagine what people must have said when race cars became so much more specialized than the street cars. I bet they said Ferrari is finished, and indeed he almost went under several times. Meanwhile, look today……. Things will be OK, but if you love a car like the 812, then make sure to get one. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
Has this thread gone permanently off track? Who cares about battery production when the topic of this thread is the 812 replacement which, we can say with high confidence, will not be an EV but a fire breathing V12 monster?! Let’s get back on topic please.
I like your analogy but my original post said nothing about getting rid of the old pet, it was about bringing in a new type of pet into the house! If done correctly they can coexist, even til 2030s day355 said the 812 replacement will be an old pet, we”ll see a new type of pet in 2025, while the SF90 VS in June will be a bit of both. Which pet you bond with is your choice/preference and nothing more. Each pet is authentic as they came from the same mother. Appreciate day355 for his insights and passion for LCDM’s Ferrari but you can’t control which pet other family members bond with. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Beg to differ. The bet is to make an electric motor that feels like an ICE (with a peaking power curve, rather than all the torque from the first revolution). Ferrari designed electric motors can make a difference in this regard. People complaining about the switch to electricity don't seem to understand that the legislation pushes all manufacturers to that direction. Ferrari have said that they will keep their ICEs in the mix though. The support of electric motors to the ICE enhances the performance anyway. No need to panic people... The problem is when we get fixated on the past.
