812 Replacement Rumors

Why give me an EV that feels like ICE? Either give me an actual ICE or give me a new experience. Imitation is counterintuitive and subpar.

 

An electric motor that feels like all other electric motors won't distinguish a Ferrari from a Porsche. That's why they need to make it feel like a Ferrari. Now, you might ask what a Ferrari feel like. Fair question. Well. different to any other EV's power delivery, for starters. Instant power, yes, but power that keeps increasing with revs (yes, electric motors do have revs), rather than tailing off. Things like that can make a difference.

 

Maybe they can program it to make it throw a random CEL every now and then.

 

What makes a Ferrari is the sound. They are about the sound and beauty of the engines. Whatever they do with an electric motor everyone else can too. It really is a big problem for them. They will need mergers, acquisitions and partnerships to try to pull in market share in EVs when their cars go silent. Otherwise, expect a long transition with lots of hybrids and repeat ICE.

 

Buy the new stuff if you like it but hold onto or buy the older cars, too. They will become even more special with time.

 

Sound is just one aspect. If you asked Enzo, he would say that Ferrari is all about performance and winning on race tracks.

 

I have a feeling that they'll go all-in on the silly EV gimmicks that Mr. Vigna believe will make an electric Ferrari feel like an ICE. Artificial gear shifts, artificial sounds inside and outside etc. Maybe with inspiration from Abarth's approach. "Without any compromise on emotion, we present to you... Ferrari Elettrica"

 

I think it would be essential for Ferrari to invent something that generates distinctive sound out of electric powertrain or alternatively complement it with some additional propulsion system that creates sound/emotion.

For instance, I find Mazda's idea of small Wankel engine as a range extender for the electric car quite interesting. However, the way rotary engine is used there is not so interesting from the emotion point of view.

The question for Ferrari is also that is it enough to create emotion/sound inside the cabin or do customers require that sound is delivered outside of the car too?

One crazy idea would be complement electric powertrain with miniature V12, which would provide only a marginal amount of total energy. While this would be rather insane thing to do, the thought of Ferrari's soul still alive and kicking in the core of the powertrain would be fascinating. For emission reasons, this miniature V12 could be also dormant during normal driving and then awaken in the Race mode for the maximum performance. This is of course rather utopistic idea as it would require lots of extra components compared to fully electric car and be therefore detrimental for the overall performance of the car.

 

To which they have been doing a terrible job at it so far, might as well just stick with sound

 

And maybe they can also make the batteries die unexpectedly.


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With all the sympathy I have for your contradiction, you are not objective because you do not have the experience of driving for years and tens of thousands of kilometers behind the wheel of a Ferrari... not to mention writing the check also makes a big difference in the perception of things

 

I respect your point of view, because as you say, there are thousands of jobs at stake...
It is in any case very brave to come to the V12 thread, because something tells me that we could very well have this discussion at the Montana restaurant.........

 

Every era has it's end, and so the one or other great brand too.
This happened in the past, happens these days and will happen in the future.

Daniel

 

What Ferrari should REALLY DO with electric cars is let you buy Sound Cartridges that play on the car stereo system and replicate the sound of various cars … you could buy a cartridge for each model … you put in one cartridge and it’s the sound of a 458, put in another cartridge and it’s the sound of an F12, for more money you can buy a 333 SP sound generator and so on. With the very powerful AI systems that now exist … Ferrari and can play a recording of any of its iconic engines going through the gear ranges and a Generative AI program can match your gas and brake pedal inputs to recreate what the engine would sound like at those rev ranges.

 

Its avoidable if you actually listen to your customers and stop believing your own BS

 

The definition of nightmare...
the artificial has no place !
similar to an inflatable doll...

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say no place for the inflatable doll. Hahaha.

 

Yeah, well, you can't always win. They remain the most successful team in F1 though and they are currently very successful in endurance racing

How would you know all that? One thing that irritated me, was the looks you would get in the 430, due to the loud sound. That is just me though, I am a rather reserved person who does not seek attention, nor has insecurity complexes...

 

We don't have to guess what answer he would have if asked. Being a mechanical engineer by trade, Enzo remarked that the engine is the only part of the car where the metal comes to life. He also said that aerodynamics were for car makers that could not make an engine. He was all about engines which he believed were special and also critical to winning races.

 

Enzo was not an engineer, he was a racer and amateur mechanic. The rest is true.

PS: The title "ingegnere" was honorific.

 

Agree. Not an engineer.

 

It may seem like a radical idea … many disruptive ideas seem crazy at first. To be clear … nobody loves petrol engines more than me … especially Ferrari engines and especially Ferrari V12s.

If it were up to me Ferrari would NEVER make a pure EV car … but since they ARE GOING TO … Give me a 333 SP sound generator synchronized to my throttle inputs playing over the 1,000 watt Burmester stereo system inside of it + a 1,000bhp battery pack with 200 mile range and I’ll consider it.

 

It's been done for years and instantly improving in computer games/racing simulations on PC, even without use of AI algorithms. High quality sound samples from real cars, with proper algorithm to apply blending curves is all that you need.
To those who say it would/could be played through car's stereo system - if you really want to fake the sound it would be better to mount a dedicated powerful speaker somewhere and transfer the sound outside of the car .
Then, at least the people (or other animals around you) can hear you coming in your electric verrari :d

Still, if you want imitation/simulation of ICE cars, it is cheaper to just play computer games.

 

This is what I'm doing lol.

 

It’s a very complex subject. Should Ferrari do an EV? And if so, what should it be and who should be the customer? We know they will do one, but not what exactly. I’m not in the camp that says such a thing should not exist. Ferrari already acknowledged, in line with a softening of stance from the EU, that ICE production will continue beyond the 2035 date. But since EVs are here to stay, and the right way to view them is not as a solution for a greener future (which they most assuredly are not) but as a product class in its own right that offers certain advantages and certain disadvantages. In this case Ferrari has every right to demonstrate its skill with this product type. Traction and torque are insane with an EV, as is linearity and controllability of power delivery. Weight and range are the problems. If they were thinking to convert their total production to EV, that’s a different story. Ferrari is not an EV brand and shouldn’t be.

For me to consider a Ferrari EV the weight needs to have limited effect on the road driving feel, which with their skill in software and chassis development should be no issue. I think the track will not be the main objective because it’s hard to think a Ferrari EV could be better than, say, the forthcoming SF90 VS in that regard, or even the Pista for that matter. No matter how good they are, physics is physics and the vast weight will bring too many problems on track that are very hard and very expensive to remedy. But on fast roads, this issue is much less. No doubt it would have to be good on track - it’s a Ferrari - just not a competitor to the VS cars. So that leaves three possible paths; a Purosangue version, an Uber GT car or a hyper car.

I don’t think they will leave it at the Purosangue. Already it’s a body style that has no link to Ferrari’s heritage and while I’m sure we will see an EV FUV sometime, I think they will do something different to highlight their ‘mastery’ of this product type. So the other two options. A GT car, which the low CoG and huge torque and traction would be ideal for, will be compromised by the range. To get 250 miles of range in a Ferrari GT the battery would put the car at 2.5+ tonnes. So the hypercar. I don’t know if they already confirmed this or not but it’s the one that makes the most sense. They can use carbon to keep the chassis as light as possible, use aggressive race-derived aero that an EV with fewer packaging limitations in terms of shape will have, to design an aero car that would be impossible for an ICE equivalent - something different that gives a purpose to using electric. Higher weight than F250 but lower CoG, all with a very radical new design that will not have been seen before because it won’t have been possible before. 599 units, £2m, 2,000 hp, faster/better handling than the Rimac. Ask yourself, “would they sell them?” You bet they would.

The key point is that Ferrari would not be introducing us to EV because they are preparing us for their future, instead, ICE continues and they use EV to show us what they can do. From there, they are insulated against whatever the future holds, including if consumer tastes change and if new product technologies (for example Hydrogen) come on stream. Whatever happens, they will have shown they can do it better. If successful some trickle down to other models means that they open a possibility (and credibility) for different models in the future. That’s what I would do. But will it be what they will do?