I don't understand why... | FerrariChat

I don't understand why...

Discussion in 'F1' started by cptndon, Jun 5, 2023.

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  1. cptndon

    cptndon Formula Junior
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    Jan 24, 2005
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    Annapolis
    no one has called out RB's straight line speed advantage.

    I can't remember how many times I've seen Verstappen simply drive away on the straights from the competition. Does he have that much more motor?

    Its started to look a little fishy to me.

    Or maybe I'm naive.
     
  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    It's the DRS from RedBull.
     
  3. absostone

    absostone F1 World Champ
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    And we still don’t understand mercs speed in the 2021 Brazil sprint race.
     
  4. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    Chris S
    They have had the top speed advantage since the beginning of 2022. I've believed since then they are stalling out he diffuser or the beam wings, or something. They also seem to be using more ERS energy at the end of the straight while all other teams are harvesting.
     
  5. USMCS6

    USMCS6 F1 Rookie
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    I would not doubt there may be something tricky there. But its all legal till you get caught, or are Ferrari.
     
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  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,721
    The problem is that RB has equivalent downforce as everyone else (or better) and less drag.

    The motor is not that much better if any.
     
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  7. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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    All of the above.
     
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  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    The engine is no better than Ferrari or Merc's (Ferrari even claim theirs is better...but each time they claim that it does go boom so there's that).

    The car quite simply is more efficient drag wise, so they can afford to crank more downforce on. More downforce and then open the wing = larger apparent speed differential.

    It's for the same reason why the DRS in Monza isn't very effective and we see little passing there: Teams run minimal downforce anyways, and then the DRS opens up they get only very little gain in speed. Take that argument in reverse (lots of downforce) and you open the wing...gain more speed.

    The media gets all complicated about this, calling it a super DRS, double DRS, whatever they want...but it's simply them running more downforce with no penalty.
     
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  9. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    It had nothing to do with the engine, it was divine intervention. The Chosen One you know.
     
  10. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    #10 DeSoto, Jun 6, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
    They were running agressive engine modes because that unit only had survive the last races. Later they admitted they used Bottas to test how far they could go with those engine modes.
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This RB is no different than the RB vettel won 4 championships with. The MO was the same. Get out front fast and then manage.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Not a bad method for winning. But some will claim it's not racin'
     
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  13. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    True, but max has come form teh back on a few ocasions and still managed to win....so this one works on all fronts, probably better than the one Vettel was driving....
     
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  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    I do not remember large complaints when Schumacher was doing the same.......
     
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  15. 11506apollo

    11506apollo F1 Rookie
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    I would love to see a comparisson of deag corficienrs with open rear wing, between RB and the rest
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I remember Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart doing the same. Nobody was too keen on wheel-to-wheel in those days.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's racing. It's just not exciting. We fans want to see the pissing match between Max and Hammy in competitive cars. Those 2 are the most likely to tangle. ALO can be #2 but the AM has never been close to RB. The Merc is moving up from zero to hero this last race. We will see if this Merc has got legs in the right direction and can post a challenge to RB. Perez just isn't Max and maybe fast but lacks the mental game of a champion.
     
  18. absostone

    absostone F1 World Champ
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    That was the rocket engine. Ridiculous fast. But max wins too much now.
     
  19. absostone

    absostone F1 World Champ
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    I should have thought of that.
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I cannot understand how F1 could be reduced to a "pissing maych", but I suppose we are of different generations.
    I suppose you would not like to see the Tourist Trophy, or rallying, where the competition is purely against the clock.
    At the Tourist Trophy (Isle of Man, UK), the riders are released one by one at 10 or 20 secondes intervals, and run several laps (7, up to 10 depending on category) on open road on a 37.2 miles circuit. It's fast, very fast (faster than MotoGP) but there is no close racing, since every rider is only interested in doing the best time on the distance, there are no defensive tactics. Lap time around 130mph.
    In rallying, or hillclimb, it's the same, competitors drive several selected sections against the clock, not against each other. Times are added to determine the winner.
    But both sports are considered racing, attract large crowds, have many fans and are very exciting to watch.
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    I amateur race in SCCA. Time trialing bores me to death. It is a different game racing a person vs. racing a clock. There is nothing wrong with either just different games different approaches etc. For amateurs we start doing trackdays graduating to time trials, then racing wheel to wheel. Some like the precision of hitting marks to the Nth degree taking risks in a different way never interested in wheel to wheel. Wheel to wheel demands TT attributes but a willingness to take risk against an unpredictable opponent in a different way while strategizing outcomes if pitstops are allowed.

    So when Max speeds off into the distance faster than everyone else, as a fan, we are watching Max Time Trialing in a racing setting. That's pretty boring.

    That said the Isle of Mann TT is a special animal. There is not other TT like it having risks like Rally over the entire course where you can end up having a really bad day for a small mistake. Fans have a sick attraction to train wrecks.
     
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  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I can see we are the complete opposite then. I tried circuit racing (Formula Renault) long time ago (50 years), and didn't like it.
    So I switched to rallying with some success, and later finished in hillclimbing, which I enjoyed much more.
    For myself, I never liked close racing, the risks involved, the aggressive defensive tactics, and the argy bargy after the race.
    I much prefered having the place all to myself and being the only one responsible for my misfortunes.
    Beside, I found the atmosphere among competitors much more relaxed, as there is no cause for animosity.
     
  23. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    Well, when Loeb or Ogier won a ton of championships in a row, rallyes declined. When the end result is predictable, the sense of risk and challenge disappears.
     
  24. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,721
    Up until about 2003, the suspension arms were such that wheel to wheel contact was simply bad for the car--witness Senna-Prost Japan at the bus stop. Now the cars are so heavy and the suspension arms so robust, they can bang around like NASCAR drivers (too bad about all those front wings,.....).
     
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  25. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2011
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    Matt
    I wonder if Red Bull could have a better ERS or deployment, or maybe ICE. Everyone has speculated that it’s aero efficient and stalls to generate better speed. Red Bull might stay silent or insinuate it’s aero, due to Newley’s genius just to misdirect away from engine or something else…
     

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