Ferrari F40 market analysis | Page 12 | FerrariChat

Ferrari F40 market analysis

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by dariedell, Feb 26, 2023.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    The correct answer from me is that I do not know, however, this is where the independent inspection you mention should may shed some light.
     
  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    Yes.
    85192 lived in Switzerland from 21 May 1990 (date of import) until its export December 2017 in Switzerland without registration. On Swiss customs import papers only (Swiss Form 13.20). This F40 was never registered for road use in Switzerland.
    It was driven in Switzerland on dealer license plates only (first 27 years).

    Marcel Massini
     
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  3. dariedell

    dariedell Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2021
    325
    United States
    Full Name:
    Andrew Riedell
    Euro-spec #83961 will be auctioned by Bonhams on 18 June in Switzerland with an estimate of 2.0-2.5m CHF (2.21-2.76m USD).

    https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28310/preview-lot/5701146/1990-ferrari-f40/

    Note also that Bonhams Motoring has made several changes - a new website exclusively for their automobiles division, a newly-launched private sales division, and a rebrand for 'The Market' online auctions to Bonhams|Cars Online.

    https://cars.bonhams.com/

    Next F40 market report update is coming Thursday.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Birel

    Birel Formula 3

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,953
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    In from Japan.
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    83961 was completed 11 January 1990 and spent its first 4 years in Italy and Europe, went to Japan in 1994, then had six owners in Japan until late 2022.
    Too bad it comes without any paperwork.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  6. Birel

    Birel Formula 3

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,953
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    All the pages torn out of the service book
     
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  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Look forward to that Andrew.
     
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  8. willcrook

    willcrook F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,706
    UK
    the 612 in that auction caught my eye because of it's delivery mileage + low estimated price

    then I noticed that also has no paperwork!
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Here's a 1990 USA F40 for sale in the City of Angels said to be a one-owner car with almost 18,000 miles with a big asking price:

    www.specialtycarcollection.com

    For some reason the chassis number is blacked out by the Sellers but I believe this is 86118.
     
  10. dariedell

    dariedell Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2021
    325
    United States
    Full Name:
    Andrew Riedell
    What would lead to something like this being done?

    The dealer stock number is #086118 so I think you are right. Amusing they would go through all that effort to black-box the chassis # on every photo, only to screw the pooch by putting it right in the listing details.

    The photos show an assembly number of #03014. DuPont Registry has this car, too, listed with VIN: ZFFMN34A4L008611...oddly missing a 17th digit.
     
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  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Andrew, do you have a compilation for how many F40s of all variants are publicly available for sale at any given time covering all advertised cars (auctions and dealer inventory)?
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    Yes, 86118 has Assembly #03014.
    Engine #23114.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  13. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,085
    UK
    Oooops.
     
  14. dariedell

    dariedell Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2021
    325
    United States
    Full Name:
    Andrew Riedell
    #289 dariedell, Jun 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2023
    I do not. For my use, I'm only hitting each classified once every month or two, and I am only pulling listings that have a listed price and/or VIN. This is because my purpose is about market price tracking and, to a lesser extent, chassis history. So, I could tell you how many F40's I've picked up over the last X amount of months, but this wouldn't really have much to do with however many are sitting available for purchase today - or at any one snapshot in time for that matter. It also would sell the market short as my figure wouldn't include listings without a price and VIN.

    It's interesting a comprehensive product to answer your question doesn't exist. I've seen some classifieds incorporate upcoming auctions into their listings (e.g. Hemmings, Classic Driver) but these auction listings sit among only the classifieds' own classifieds, which is never the complete picture. The ultimate product would offer all upcoming auctions alongside an aggregation of all classifieds. However, not only would this be technologically demanding as it would require daily or so data pulls to check for availability and an automated process to merge redundant chassis listings across multiple websites, but I don't think the various classifieds would be happy with such a re-syndication service if somebody were to try to bring it to market - I guess that's why one doesn't exist?

    Classic.com seems to have the most ambition in this area, as last year they started listing classifieds amongst their auction results, and they have better 'upcoming auction lots' coverage than the classifieds do. However, this is a feature to monitor rather than actually rely on (yet). They list a whopping zero F40's currently for sale from the dealers they cover, and they don't have the upcoming Bonhams auction lot listed yet.
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Thank you Andrew.

    Here's another result for your database, the Classiche Certified Eu/ROW F40 84116 showing 965 kilometers (600 miles) as it sits in California sold for @ $3,000,000, check the last image for evidence of the weave in the paint.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Schwafu

    Schwafu Karting

    Feb 12, 2023
    74
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Schwafu
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Recently, as in within the last month or so.
     
  18. christiann

    christiann Karting

    Nov 29, 2006
    207
    What model year?
     
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  19. dariedell

    dariedell Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2021
    325
    United States
    Full Name:
    Andrew Riedell
    Following the Villa Erba update to my F40 analysis, Part II has been added as well. Here's the link below, or just follow the link from the end of Part I.

    https://datadriven.autos/market-analysis/ferrari-f40-part-ii/

    This supplemental report covers restoration, modification, originality, non-standard repaints, accessories (books, tools, Schedoni luggage), notable prior ownership, and concours award-winning history. There's also a comparison of auction results vs. their original estimates, and a few deeper dives into topics covered in Part I. Parts I & II combined represent all the 'variables' I plan on covering in this F40 report, although I may add different cuts and comparisons of the existing variables in future updates, in the same way I've done with mileage and model year in Part II.

    I've also added a table of contents to each part for easier navigation. These are links that can be shared so that the recipient is taken directly to the relevant section of the page, so they don't need to scroll down themselves. For example, if somebody is looking for the physical differences between Euro and US-spec F40's, you can send them a link that looks like this:

    https://datadriven.autos/market-analysis/ferrari-f40/#euro-vs-us-spec-differences

    Enjoy!

    Thank you, Joe - I've added this. Impressively low mileage!
     
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Excellent data compilation Andrew.

    As regards the differences between the USA and Eu/ROW F40s, I believe you have it well covered but for the record again, here's what John Amette (who's been with Ferrari SpA since 1988 and was involved with the development of the F40) gave me, perhaps some of this is helpful:

    1. USA production spanned from early 1990 to late 1992. Chassis numbers to follow (European production started late 1987).
    2. USA F40s weigh in at 2878 lbs dry. Actual USA F40s weighed by FNA with all fluids and half-a-tank of gas weighed in at 2969 lbs (European cars are stated at 2717 lbs dry).
    3. USA F40s have aluminum gas tanks with twin fuel pumps mounted within the tanks ( European cars have rubber fuel cells which require replacement each 7 years with externally located fuel pumps ).
    4. USA F40s have twist-off gas caps (European cars have the locking items).
    5. USA F40s were all supplied with the variable ride height system deleted (some European cars were thus supplied).
    6. USA F40s have 2-piece seats with reclining backs and a passive restraint system (European cars have single-piece seats with 3-point seat belts).
    7. USA F40s have their tow-hook attachment mounted directly into the chassis (European cars attach to the front body).
    8. USA F40s have a final drive ratio of 10-29 (European cars are rated at 11-30).
    9. USA F40s acheive maximum torque of 58.8 kgm/427 ft lbs at 4300 rpm (European cars achieve this same torque at 4000 rpm).
    10. USA F40s are rated "at or above 500 bhp" @ 7000 rpm (European cars are rated at 478 bhp at same rpm).
    11. USA F40s were the first car to utilize metallic (titanium) based catalysts to allow faster warm up and greater resilience.
    12. USA F40s have a secondary air injection for emissions that can be heard at each start up.
    13. USA F40s had to pass DOT front, rear & side impact tests. These include the 2.5 mph front and rear tests. Accordingly the bodywork is strengthened.
    14. USA F40s have a drag co-efficient of 0.34CX including the rear wing (European F40s are rated the same).
    With respect to the gear ratios, please note the following:
    First gear - 1:10.707 (USA), 1:10.069 (Euro)
    Second gear - 1:6.628 (USA), 1:6.262 (Euro)
    Third gear - 1:4.745 (USA), 1:4.463 (Euro)
    Fourth gear - 1:3.724 (USA), 1:3.501 (Euro)
    Fifth gear - 1:2.965 (USA), 1:2.787 (Euro)
     
  21. dariedell

    dariedell Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2021
    325
    United States
    Full Name:
    Andrew Riedell
    Thanks Joe. I had nearly all the bits that I wanted to include in my summary, but I did add the difference in final drive to my bullet about gear ratios.

    On that note, I added an overdue footnotes section at the end of my report, crediting various sources of information including yourself and Marcel.
     
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  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Andrew if you get the chance to inspect a USA F40 and a Eu/ROW F40 side-by-side it's immediately apparent that these are very different cars, drive them back-to-back and this feeling is reinforced, a good reason to have one of each variant, and some do.
     
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  23. msn

    msn Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2011
    511
    So here is another one for your references showing how important mileage is on the F- Cars.... A one owner from new F40 , 42k miles with a fully documented history
    The car is being advertised at 1.65 million GBP... Nearly half the price of a car with super low miles.... I'm 10 minutes away from Ian and going to have a look this week
    https://barkaways.com/sales/1991-ferrari-f40
     
  24. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    89047 has had at least three different license plates/registrations, in both Monaco and England.
    Seems Mr. R. C. W. K., the owner moved it around quite a bit.
    11 March 1991 build start.
    6 May 1991 completion date.
    Engine #26334.
    Gearbox #316.
    Body #228.
    Assembly #06083.

    Marcel Massini
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    When I posted on this car in this thread a month ago www.ferrarichat.com it was being advertised by DK Engineering and James intimated to me that £1,750,000 was required, so this F40's current price reduction reflects the overall trend this year so far.
     
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