Bring a Trailer.....censorship

For those kinds of cars, try Cars & Bids. You might find something better/cheaper.

Looking for transparency in online auctions is a bit of a fool's errand. You'll never get the level you're looking for, there's just no incentive for them to be that open. It is what it is.

 

besides, they have their favorite sellers....i had listed many items that were never taken....but similar items to mine were accepted by other sellers....i say hmmmmm

 

To be frank, I don't think they care. They're model means they're paid by connecting the winner of a "successful" auction to the seller; whether those two parties complete the sale is literally none of BATs business (it should be, but it isn't).

I've mentioned in other BAT threads that someone paid a lot of money for a special Ferrari because the seller downplayed the severity of an accident (hey, they didn't completely deny it, I guess... right?)... a small "scrape in a parking lot" was actually the entire front end smashed up to the windshield. I posted numerous comments, links to a dropbox with photos and documents, emailed BAT support and... Nothing. F those guys.

 

re-writing history........
Love it........
Happens all the time.
Marcel Massini

 

Agree with you. If you set a reserve you can tell all your friends to bid to just below the reserve to push the car up. all you need is one person other than your friends.

 

Another thought on this subject. I see people bidding 200,000 on cars that have never bid on a car before. Looks suspicious too me!!

 

It's a private website, you have no free speech on their platform. I always find it amazing how people won't understand this basic premise. They run the show however they see fit - always been like this, always will be. Ever try to "comment" on an auction run by RM Sothebys, or Gooding, etc? Didn't think so. You're lucky BAT even has a comments section, which is itself - newsflash - mainly a source of sales information meant to make bidders want to bid. It's actually clever in that it gives you the illusion that it is a debate section. It isn't. It's there to help drive the bidding up.

People need to get over this illusion that auctions are in some way "fair". They are not. Their continued survival hinges on a delicate ecosystem involving motivated buyers and sellers, attractive product, and just enough information to provide them with goodwill. They are just another way of selling something, full of intricacies and idiosyncrasies. You're not obliged to participate, but if you chose to do so you are obliged to follow whatever rules they see fit to enforce. Them's the breaks.

 

I AM A FAN of BAT... to counter the false bid claims sure it can happen but it absolutely happens at other in person Auctions .. the big part of BAT is they have that 2 minutes at the end while most in person auctions jam bids as fast at they can and MANY are not real ... I have sold and purchased cars on bat as well as several of the national in person auctions. I can tell you the most comfortable feeling is BAT... and the cost is very reasonable .. so all I can say if you see a car at ANY auction site bid what you are comfortable with and nothing more....

 

you would be surprised how many of the BIG national auctions with record breaking sales only have one bid.. sure you will see the people on the phone etc and the guy pointing and slowly raising the ask .. However if you know what to look for it is easy to tell if there is any real money on a car .. .. then a real bid comes and the car is hammer sold almost instantly .. TO be clear there is NOTHING fair about auctions but for me I like BAT the best....

 

I bought a chopper at a big auction house - there was Internet pre-bidding allowed, then it would go "under the hammer" live for final bidding.

In the Internet pre-bidding I was the high bidder with a "reserve bid" several thousand higher - so in case there was a bid a little above mine, it would automatically kick in.

When it got to the "live" portion of the auction on the chopper... crickets... NOBODY was bidding - woot!

After about two minutes of the live auctioneer getting no bids, there was miraculously a bid - so my automatic bid kicked in - and then two seconds later the hammer fell at my higher bid.

I have no doubt I got screwed by the auction house - who had full visibility to my higher reserved bid - and... that's the story!

Kevin

 

Count me as a fan of BAT. Their incentive to spur higher bids is capped at $5k compared to no cap at traditional auction houses. If you can't ignore the peanut gallery as you consider what your max value is for a particular item, then don't bid. You should still do your due diligence; for anything you deem questionable, send a trusted expert to inspect the car in person as that's cheap insurance.

Not all FChat members post of their BAT wins, but this one deserves to be noted.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1958-250gt-ellena.679037/#post-149192525

 

Very well said. I've bought & sold with a good number of auction houses over many years, as have a number of good friends & clients, we've seen/experienced a lot. Neither I, nor any of my friends would ever consider any of them to be fair. We've had very good and very bad experiences, it's generally a gamble to some extent. And the consensus among us is that auction houses are certainly not all equal in their knowledge, and ethics, which many or maybe most of them severely lack. If you shake hands with some of them, and you'd better count your fingers after that. They are like Casino's... the house always wins.

 

Especially when many are taking 10-20% PER side (buy/sell).

I am all for businesses making their money, but having been in the building during a hot market at Amelia in example, and seeing the bids "flying", do you know how easy it is to trick and fake people, especially those who have had too many chardonnays? Pfft. Fish in a barrel for these folks

 

I follow various cars every week on BAT to keep myself informed about current sales prices but many times bids and prices are significantly lower than sales on other platforms or than direct sales (seller to buyer without an auction) on the other hand they need to add a significant premium paid to the auction house. Why would someone sell for less than the fair market value on BAT (for the buyer, the value is closer to the marketplace after paying the commissions)? I also see cars sold way above their fair value (too many people chasing the same car, or a trick from BAT with fake potential buyers)? And not easy to arrange a PPI, how many buy just after reading the ad and without doing a full due diligence?

May be I’m getting older, but I prefer buying a car directly from the owner or from a reputable car dealer.

 

Here's a BAT auction example where the "peanut gallery" added their expertise to help answer questions that the seller couldn't. Did this help the seller more or bidders more? I think both need to be helped for price discovery in a sale/auction. BTW, I have no affiliation or financial interest in BAT ... wish I did!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-porsche-911-carrera-s-coupe-26/#comments-anchor

 

An auction is just another type of sale, via a channel motivated to make money for itself out of buyers and sellers, simultaneously, by whatever means they can get away with. Cars are a tiny proportion of auction revenues globally, and most auctions have zero opportunity for caveat emptor type information. There are many, many examples of fakes being consigned in art and wine auctions for example where the auction houses know or have been actively complicit, and warnings are deliberately ignored for these reasons.

If an auction house develops functionality for the public to comment and debate openly (and correctly sometimes) on lots, it will be marginalised by one that doesn't. But buyers can still do their usual checks and due diligence, just like buying from a private or trade seller.

 

online auctions have several things going for it but most of all is time . you know exactly when it will end and can follow along if you like and yeah you can bid even if you know your not going to buy the vehicle all without any pressure ... lots of fun I once bought a rare car for far below the market price I guess no one else realized what it was . this was on eBay maybe 20 years ago I bid a min bid and then maybe 2 weeks later and a little while before it closed I got a phone call from a friend letting me know in about 5 minutes I would have purchased the car (if I wanted it) then I got a message from the seller asking if my bid was real as he would remove the reserve and accept it if I was real ... within a few hours I had the car checked out it was what it was and I bought it at a price well below market... so things happen ...
I kept the car a while and sold it via an online ad..... I still see it at one of the big auction houses every few years ..

When selling a car I don't have to deal with shipping the car or watching it while it sits at an auction for a week and best of all do not have to pay 6 to 10% for selling the car..

 

The thing about bat is…you’re always paying more than the seller wants for the car.

Many times…alot more.

The worst place to buy. The best place to sell.

 

True, but BaT loves low-mileage cars. Say what you will, a 30,000 mile car is light years better than a 130,000 car. We may lust after these cars, but they are still mechanical devices. That said, I have never brought a car at any auction.

 

Same with gunbroker. Never again putting in a top bid prior to auction end .
Ebay however seems legit for back up high bid .

 

The only drawback to BAT that I can see is the inability….usually….to conveniently visually inspect the vehicle you’re bidding on. At least at a live auction you can inspect the livestock to a certain degree.

Has anybody here used their “shipping service”? Do they vet the shipping companies or is it no better than the typical (that is to say….almost useless) transportation broker?