Ferrari Sport Cars Thread | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Sport Cars Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Feb 12, 2023.

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  1. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Franco Cornacchia & Gino Bronzoni, race #436. Sorry, don't know the body.
     
  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Sorry but can’t be this car as #436 was 0156ET...(see post #104 in this thread).
     
  3. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    I am not aware of any other race on 12.04.1953 except the 11° Les Coupes de Vitesse de Montlhéry, the Nationaler Automobil-Slalom Dübendorf and in the USA the Lone Star National Sports Car Races (Bergstrom AFB). I think we can safely discard those, the event has to be the 13° Giro automobilistico di Sicilia.

    Chassis 0276 MM was raced by Franco Cornacchia in 1953, but the history of the 250 MMs is highly complicated :confused:
     
  4. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    There were several cars at Giro di Sicila 1953 that could match with 0276MM.
    First of all : #414 with Luigi Piotti.
    His car must be 0290M (also raced in Mille Miglia with #447) but :
    - we don’t have pic of #414,
    - Piotti raced 0276MM with the new body in 1953.

    #428 (Umberto Masetti) 250 MM Vignale spyder could also a good candidate)...
     
  5. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    #180 Sempre_gilles, Jun 26, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2023
    My info lists the car of Piotti in the 13° Giro automobilistico di Sicilia as on loan from Cacciari which strongly suggests chassis 0272 M.

    #428 (Umberto Masetti & Azelio Cappi) was a Ferrari entry?
     
  6. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    0272M was #442 at Giro di Sicilia 1953 (see post #106)

    See post #104 for a pic of #428
     
  7. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    I have #414 Luigi Piotti as DNA instead of DNF (source: Cavallino #117 page 3)
     
  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Anyway, Kare noticed #414 was in the « CATEG. SPORT INTERNAZ. 2000 », so not 0276MM...
     
  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    « CATEG. SPORT COMMERCIALE 3000 » was for 250 MM.

    The question is : could #428 be 0276MM ? I
    I identified it as 0288MM but could be completely wrong...
     
  10. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    #414 Luigi Piotti: Cavallino lists chassis as 0290 M which is a 166 MM/53 Series II (which fits with the 2 liter category).
     
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  11. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Some corrections about 1953 Giro di Sicilia.
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    In post #104, I misidentified this pic as #428 (Masetti-Cappi) when it was #444 (Villoresi-Cassani).


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    In post #110, I misidentified this pic as #440 (Cabianca-Roghi) when it was #428 (Masetti-Cappi).

    Thanks to Kare for his help !
     
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  12. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Well... the question remains :
    What was the race number of 0276MM (and with which body ?) at 1953 Giro di Sicilia ? Is it pure speculation ? :confused:
     
  13. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    It was Marcel who said that 0276 MM crashed badly on 12 April 1953.

    It was only my assumption that this particular crash had to be during the 1953 Giro di Sicilia (as there were no other major races in Italy that day); and if so that the most obvious candidate would have to be race #436 (as Franco Cornacchia had raced 0276 MM in other races in 1953 and was a DNF in Sicily). I can be wrong on both :(
     
  14. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    I agree with you. If 0276MM was ever crashed on 12 April 1953, it must be at Giro di Sicilia but with no pic or proof, difficult to believe.
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    430 Guerino Gerini in Cornacchia's 250 MM.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  16. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Many thanks Marcel ! Pinin Farina berlinetta or Vignale spyder ?
     
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  17. nico308

    nico308 Formula Junior

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    If only the history of the 250 MM's was complicated in a lot of models not only Ferrari there are still stuff to discover , new facts . Even in the most written Ferrari car the 250 GTO there are still mistakes in some cars history .
     
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  18. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    What's more complicated is that #430 is on the entry list with Bruno Sterzi which is supposed to have won its class!
     
  19. detective

    detective Karting

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    I don't know if this helps or hinders but this picture is claimed to be (0276MM) early in 1953, not long before a Morrelli spyder body was fitted. I can't vouch for any of the info.
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  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    No connection with our subject. Your pic shows 0358AM at Trieste-Opicina hillclimb in 1954...;)
     
  21. detective

    detective Karting

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    Thanks Cyril. That alternative was given on the same website !! However, I have been informed that 0276MM had a similar body and was one of two 250MM that had a body similar to the 375MM - the other being 0356MM (which confusingly was a 166MM/53 chassis with a 250 engine). Is that all nonsense as well ?
     
  22. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    I personally think that claims of 0276MM having been a PF Berlinetta are based of a clerical error, 0270MM likely re-entered as 0276MM and this entry would naturally soon be striked over. Would not have been the first or last time this happened. Neither is there room for another PF job number. 0270MM was PF/11193 and the next car a month later was 0292MM PF/11194.

    I also agree with Aardy that B. Sterzi was #430 on the entry list and I have him likely finishing third in class with finishing time 12:54:00 and average speed of 83.7 km/h, not allowing for a serious accident on the way.

    Without photographic evidence of the opposite, I must presume that 0276MM was delayed in production a little for various reasons. First of all all coachbuilders were out of capacity at this time, and the situation was getting so serious that Ferrari started building bodies themselves (sc. Autodromos). The mix-up with PF may also have delayed the production. So maybe Piotti just arranged his car to be built by Morelli after hearing that Vignale could not make it in time.

    Once more: I would love to be proved wrong.
     
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  23. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    356MM was a special design resembling a 375MM and also described as "tipo 375MM 2-posti".

    There was another car looking quite like it, but it was the second body of 0250MM built around the same time (late53/early 54).
     
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  24. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    We can add that the body of 0356MM and the second body of 0250MM are quite similar with 0422MD and 0452MD design. But it’s another story that we will talking about in 2024 if we follow the chronology...;)
     
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  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Please note that the correct chassis number suffix for 0356 is M (0356 M, not 0356 MM).
    Per the build sheets the frame type is 166 MM/53.
    Engine is a 3 liter 250, gearbox and rear axle are 166 MM.

    Marcel Massini
     
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