Ferrari Sport Cars Thread | Page 11 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Sport Cars Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Feb 12, 2023.

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  1. kare

    kare F1 Rookie Consultant

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    I have a note stating that Giulio Cabianca was the last starter at 9:43AM and that he retired with differential failure. Have not recorded the source for this, but sounds like a photo caption from a race report.
     
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  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Thanks Kare.
    I forgot the guy called "Vanini" who finished 52nd (3rd S2.0). Don't know the car nor the race number...
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    28 February 1953 until 12 April 1953 is 43 days.
    Issuing paperwork on 14 March 1953 (Factory Certificate of Origin) has nothing to do with body construction.

    Marcel Massini
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  4. kare

    kare F1 Rookie Consultant

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    According to my obseravations certificato was usually written when the car in question was shipped to a customer. There are some relatively rare exceptions. There must have been a reason for creating this document at this particular time (14.3.53), and there must be room for discussing what that reason might have been.
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    The Coppa della Toscana held on the 31st May 1953 was the 5th Annual Event.
    855 = Co-driver of Lamberti was Adolfo Macchieraldo.
    936 = Driver was Carlo Bonomi.
    943 = Yes, 0282 MM and the driver was not Cabianca but Franco Cortese.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  6. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Many thanks for your help Marcel !
     
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  7. kare

    kare F1 Rookie Consultant

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    According to my notes "SerS2000" - series built or production sports cars. This together with two Fiats finishing in front of him makes me think he may have been driving an Aurelia after all. This guess is supported by the fact that we can find Vanini/Malfranti in MM53 entry list with a Lancia Aurelia S2000.
     
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  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    That would be logical, yes. Many thanks for your help too Kare !
     
  9. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Next to the 5° Coppa della Toscana I do not have a single entry for Vanini ever driving a Ferrari.
    Most of the time that is a clear indication of either a spelling error in the name of the driver or an incorrect entry of the car.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
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  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    André Vanoni.......(0236 MM)
    Giuseppe Viannini.......(0192 ET)
    etc.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    All similar names which could be noted down incorrectly as "Vanini'.
    But the quoted result of "Vanini" is 52th place which is not very likely for a driver as André Vanoni.

    And wasn't 0192 ET already in Argentina end of June 1953?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    I just listed some "similar sounding" names, nothing to do with a date.
    So many posters here are simply speculating, rather than providing facts..........

    Marcel Massini
     
  13. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Nobody in 2023 knowns anymore exactly what happened in 1953.
    Fact is that some sources list a "Vanini" racing a Ferrari in the 5° Coppa della Toscana without further details on the car, only the class he entered is known.
    Fact is that there is no known "Vanini" in that period as (regularly) racing a Ferrari.

    Sound reasoning says that in many cases driver names were written down incorrectly. Or that drivers intended to enter a certain car, but showed up driving another one for whatever reason (e.g. intended race car damaged in earlier event, ordered car not delivered yet). Race reports were written down by reporters who lacked knowledge of who was racing what.

    Fact is that a "Vanini" raced a Lancia Aurelia in the 1953 Mille Miglia. Type of car fits the class entered by "Vanini" in the Coppa della Toscana.
    To conclude that therefore the listed "Vanini" drove a Lancia Aurealia is speculation indeed. But at least it is a plausible possibility. No one here is claiming this to be the undisputed truth.
     
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  14. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    I will try to show Giro dell’Umbria entrants.
    Lot of speculation but we are moving forward ! Thanks to everyone who joined the game ! ;)
     
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  15. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Giro Automobilistico dell’Umbria - Coppa della Perugina 28 June 1953

    Very difficult to find infos and pictures ! Most of speculation ! ;)

    #848 166 MM Touring Le Mans Berlinetta (Ferrari 2000 = 0048M ?) Musitelli / Drago 5th (3rd Sport oltre 2000cc)

    #922 225 S Touring Barchetta 0104E Stagnoli / Regosa 4th (2nd Sport oltre 2000cc)

    #925 212 Export Fontana Spyder 0086E DNF Serena di Lapigio / Theoli DNF (Sport oltre 2000cc)

    Ferrari 2000 (0314M ??) Lualdi / Pellegatta 9th (4th Sport oltre 2000cc)

    Ferrari 2000 (0290M ??) Bracco DNS (Sport oltre 2000cc)

    Ferrari 2000 Bernabei DNF (Sport oltre 2000cc)

    Bittarelli ???

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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
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  16. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

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    Here is what I have in on the 5° Giro automobilistico dell' Umbria:

    I have chassis 0262 M, a 166 MM/53 Series II car.

    I have chassis 0176 ED, but my database does not lists registration plates. Can someone please check plate 195431 MI?

    My notes do not list a chassis number, only that is a Ferrari 2560 (which fits with a 212 Export).

    0314 M also in my lists.

    Nothing on him in my database. Never heard of him.....


    I also have (not listed by Aardy):
    Ferrari 2000 Mario Ricci / Del Debbio 38th ((7th Sport oltre 2000cc)

    As Aardy already clearly stated, these are not proven facts but a lot of speculation :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    848: pic shows a Berlinetta Touring, not 0262 M.
    MI 195431 is 0104 ED. I have all paperwork.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  18. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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  19. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    I didn’t post the « Ferrari 2000 Mario Ricci / Del Debbio 38th ((7th Sport oltre 2000cc) » as Ricci is also listed with a Lancia Aurelia...
     
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  21. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
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  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    Clearly 0048 M with the then registration Bergamo "BG 25748".
    That plate was issued 20 September 1952, to FERRUCCIO Musitelli (not Giulio Musitelli).

    Marcel Massini
     
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  23. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Perfect, thank you very much Marcel !
     
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  24. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    4-5 July 1953 12 Heures de Reims, France
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    #5 Vignale Spyder 340 MM 0324AM Chinetti / Hill DNF
    #18 Pinin Farina Berlinetta 375 MM 0322AM Carini / Maglioli Scuderia Ferrari DSQ while leading
    (Headlights off before regulation time, too many mechanics in the pits, pushing the car into the pits which was prohibited).
    #27 Vignale Coupé 166 MM/53 0244M Picard / Pozzi 6th (2nd in 2 liters class)
    #28 Vignale Spyder 166 MM/53 0328M Rubirosa / Leygonie DNF in 2 liters class

    Winner :
    #4
    Jaguar C-type Whitehead / Moss
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  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    0328 M had been renumbered to 0050 M, because Rubirosa tried to avoid customs duties.

    Marcel Massini
     
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