F8 crash in Houston - traction control?? | FerrariChat
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F8 crash in Houston - traction control??

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023.

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  1. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #1 Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023
    Yesterday an F8 lost control while accelerating out of a local cars&coffee and hit a concrete barrier pretty hard.
    I wasn't at this one, but it's only 2 miles from my home and I usually go with my X1/9.

    There is better video on Instagram/FB, but can get an idea from this clip:


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    Driver is apparently ok.

    Reminds me of this 812 crash in London:


    Question is, shouldn't traction control (assuming it was on) prevent this sort of thing?

    Of course it's very possible either or both drivers in these 2 crashes put it in race or drift or whatever "no nanny" mode, but wondering if the traction control on these mega-powered RWD cars can cope with this sort of thing.

    The only similarly powered car I've ever driven was a short time in a 488 at Houston Motorsports Park, and I never roughly slammed the accelerator down but did feel the traction control mildly kicking in around some mid-speed curves when I got on it.
     
  2. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #2 Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023
    tried pasting the youtube link starting at the F8 crash, anyway it's at 16:40 in the above youtube vid.
     
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  3. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    #3 vraa, Jul 9, 2023
    Traction control cannot defy physics

    I remember the first time I spun out on the street in my 360, tires were very old, driver competence was very low!
     
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  4. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    #4 crinoid, Jul 9, 2023
    The driver is the problem. Not the car.
     
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  5. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #5 Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023
    I know the video quality is terrible, but the F8 driver was going straight when he got on the throttle.
    Shouldn't traction control prevent the kind of wheelspin that kicked the back end out?
    In snow/ice/wet mode I'm sure it's more "intrusive", but even in the dry (unless it's in "full off" mode, which again it very well may have been. In which case I'm 100% sure the driver regrets!) I would think it should keep the rear tires from spinning for more than a very brief time.
     
  6. Ffre92

    Ffre92 Formula Junior

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    #6 Ffre92, Jul 9, 2023
    I’m fairly certain traction control has to be off for this to happen. On my 575, on a local very twisty section uphill, when I am throttling out of a tight turn, the ASR will light up on the dash. At the most, I’ll feel the need to counter steer for a fraction of a second, but never lose control, and this is for early gen traction control. I’m often suprised at how I underestimate the power needed to trigger ASR.
     
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  7. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #7 ginoBBi512, Jul 9, 2023
    What a waste. This is no surprise to me, traction control. smacktion control, whats the difference. Another idiot having no business being behind the wheel of a Ferrari. You got to love the F8 though, its the best looking mid mounted V8 since the F40 . Throttle control is the name of the game, you lose pal.

    Big G
     
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  8. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #8 rob lay, Jul 9, 2023
    I agree that shouldn't happen if the nanny's are on, so probably off to get more wheel spin.

    I think most likely getting some 3rd-4th spin, but other thought there was a car ahead they were closing on fast, so lifted? That's why you don't do this on public streets with regular traffic around, the worse thing you could do for control is lift, but that's what they might have had to do closing on slow traffic.
     
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  9. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula 3

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    #9 Newjoint, Jul 9, 2023
    Happened to me without the crash in a 488 in race mode.
    Has never happened with any of the NA Ferraris I’ve had.
    Yes I had a heavy foot on the pedal but I felt the turbo boost kicked in and overwhelmed the electronic nannies for a split second. Just enough to nearly spin the car.
    It was the main reason I left the 488 for an 812 and never looked back.


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  10. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #10 ginoBBi512, Jul 9, 2023
    Today, with these 600 + HP cars, the tires can spin at much higher speeds and there is no way enough run off once the car breaks loose in either direction. If you want to clown around, maybe let the wheels spin a little in first and maybe second and be done with it , certainly not in 3rd and 4th .Doing burnouts and doing burnouts in multiple gears is an art , whether on a bike or in a car , and one does not start to learn in a 600 + HP Ferrari.

    G
     
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  11. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #11 Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2023
    If one of the longer, better quality videos makes it to Youtube you'll see that he makes the sharp turn from parking lot to feeder road fairly sedately so it's not like he was trying the classic "smoky C&C powerslide exit" that has claimed many Mustangs. The sound isn't synched to the image in the vid I posted unfortunately.

    Turning off all TC to impress the crowd with 20mph+ wheelspin would seem to be a strange choice, but who knows.

    One FB poster that claims to know the driver said the car has full hand controls due to the owner/driver disability, which if true might account for less than ideal throttle control or possibly even some kind of malfunction.
     
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  12. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #12 Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023
    In the main FB thread one lady came on to defend the driver, claiming that the tires were cold, nobody criticizing his driving had driven a super high performance car, and the driver most definitely was not showing off or doing anything "stupid".

    I couldn't resist responding with:
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  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #13 rob lay, Jul 9, 2023
    In early 2000's there was a lady with full hand controls racing 355 Challenge.
     
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  14. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #14 Nurburgringer, Jul 9, 2023
    Probably without any traction control either :)
    That's impressive - steering, brakes, shifting, and throttle is a lot to keep track of even with 4 limbs!
     
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  15. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 Texas Forever, Jul 9, 2023
    Can't fix stupid.
     
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  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #16 Rifledriver, Jul 9, 2023
    I knew the guy who looked after the car. You pushed on the steering wheel for brakes and there was a full diameter ring behind the steering wheel that you pulled toward the wheel for accelerator.
    Trying to remember but I believe she was allowed to run an F1 trans. It was all very nicely done but her hands were very busy driving it.
     
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  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #17 Rifledriver, Jul 9, 2023
    Another "Hey watch this" moment gone bad. Hero to zero in seconds flat.
     
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  18. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #18 ginoBBi512, Jul 9, 2023
    I wonder what % of people who own 600 HP Ferraris , that which being theyre very first entry into the marque. ( did I phrase that correctly ? lol )

    G
     
  19. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 G. Pepper, Jul 10, 2023
    Both my 456M and 360 had early traction control and ABS systems, and they were intrusive, but flawless. Saved me from some cold tire events for sure. No way that guy had the car in street mode. He had to have turned something off or to a more aggressive driving mode.
     
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  20. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Veteran

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    #20 LVP488, Jul 10, 2023
    Not sure it could happen in "Sport" mode but I think it can definitely happen in "Race".
    In "Race" mode the TC is calibrated not to be too intrusive, so it assumes the driver is knowing what he does to some extent: the idea is, if a relatively average driver can manage the situation, then let him do so - but if he does not, it may be too late when the electronics take control.
    I test drove the F8 on a rainy day and was in "Race" - I floored in 2nd gear (to check the difference with my 488, 50 hp more is not that obvious on the road) with the wheels perfectly straight and had the same kind of result; I could catch it back though before even exiting my lane... but I switched to "Sport" immediately after :p
     
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  21. audi_328

    audi_328 F1 Rookie
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    #21 audi_328, Jul 10, 2023
    Almost surprises me that these things still happen (but not really, I suppose, people being people)...pretty much everybody who goes to a C&C has seen these sorts of videos, and if ever I had a thought going to one of these, it's not to be that guy. Then again, there's a limit to what a 28-year old Ferrari will do, lol.

    Most memorable of these videos was the LaFerrari driver that ate it in Paris, I think, a few years ago.
     
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  22. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #22 paulchua, Jul 10, 2023
    Affirmative, I've had the same experience. I can only assume you he had TC off. Assuming he didn't, it's new, so can't be bad tires. Only logical thing at that lower speed is some sort of slick from a busted up car before? Or pull throttle, snap oversteer. Modified hand control might have contributed.
     
  23. Viper830tt

    Viper830tt Karting

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    #23 Viper830tt, Jul 10, 2023
    Seeing this on R&T, my first thought was that this was one of those folks that thinks all those electronic nannies on the car aren't for them... I agree, this is entirely on the driver barring some weird, esoteric, unforeseen mechanical failure. Prior mustang owner maybe???
     
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  24. 05F430F1

    05F430F1 F1 Rookie
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    #24 05F430F1, Jul 10, 2023
    Why all the comments about mustangs? I don’t get it. Just saying that they’re cheap cars with bad drivers?


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  25. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #25 vrsurgeon, Jul 10, 2023
    Can someone please annotate on the bottom of the video: "NOT A MUSTANG" Thank you.
    I get confused so easily with these videos like that. Obviously money to buy does not equal ability to drive. Was it "A Deer" as well? ;)

    I always thought it would be fun to get some obstacles and see how fast one could exit a mock C+C without running into things. Fastest score wins.
     
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